Hollywood Treo runs WM5?

[surur]

I dont trust the Sagio analysis. I think this company is just a corporate raider, 80's style, leveraging their position to suck out any value from the host (e.g. its mountain of cash), and then discarding the bleeding corpse.

However if they do actually have inside information, and we can take some of what they say at face value, they said WM5 is very important for Europe, where POS has poor traction, and also said the antenna-less Hollywood is destined for Europe. Connecting the two, it implied Hollywood runs WM5....if you can believe a word they say...

Quotes from the pdf which supports this:

In Europe where PALM market share is only 5% we think that Microsoft alliance will give an immediate boost to sales and also expand carrier relationship since most of them already support Windows mobile 5.0.
and
Presently PALM has a very strong market position in the US with 31% of market share but is currently very weak in EMEA (4%) and Asia Pacific (5%) The weakness in Europe is mainly explained by 3 factors
- External antenna disliked by fashion sensitive Europeans
- Lack of support and following for PALM operating systems
- No 3G radio and poor camera quality
All this concerns will be taken care of with PALM new product code named Hollywood which will be introduced in May 06.
and
“Hollywood” will be a fancier 3G/GSM smartphone which will represent PALM first attempt at the European GSM market. We know the phone will have no external antenna and will probably he launched by Cingular in the US.
http://www.sagioinvest.com/reps/Palm_SAGIO_Research.pdf

What do you think? Reasonable deduction?

Surur

[JimmieGeddes]

It's possible, but it's also possible it could be running both, 1 versions running Palm OS and another running Windows Mobile 5, that way Palm could sell that form factor to both camps. It will be popular, a thin, antenna-less Treo.

[surur]

Like the Treo 700p, this is possible, but I believe unlikely, as it will impact the sale of the other 3G Treo formfactor in USA, especially if the timescale is real e.g. a Treo 700p in February, and a Hollywood Treo in May will upset many people. This may be a Europe only device, in which case they will not bother developing a POS solution, for the reasons they mention in the report quoted.

Surur

[JimmieGeddes]

I thought they said "March-May 2006: "Hollywood" - fancier 3G/GSM smartphone without external antenna to appeal to European customers; in US likely to be launched by Cingular.

It's another case of GSM vs CDMA phones, who's got the cooler of the two. This would give Cingular an exclusive. Palm would be smart to give the big 3 Treo exclusives, it would really make all 3 carriers "love" Palm for an exclusive, only available here Treo. Verizon with Treo 700w, Sprint with Treo 700p, and Cingular with "hollywood". Some people would switch carriers to get a slimmer Treo, heck a lot would. Look at what the RAZR did for Cingular.

[ppcmd]

Not me I am switching back to Verizon once the Treo 700w hits, Cingular just hasn't lived up to my standards.

[surur]

The problem is that a slim, antenna-less 3G Treo, regardless of OS, will be much cooler than any of the other old designs, and people who bought the Treo700w/p 3-4 months previously are going to feel immensely cheated not to have even been offered the choice. Also I understand the 3G phone network (not EDGE, but 3G) is very poorly developed in USA, even by Cingular. With the new Palm sales centre in Europe, it sounds to me as if they are segregating their market.

Surur

[JimmieGeddes]

I agree with you about the slim, antenna-less Treo selling well. It will, I wouldn't be surprised if people jumped ship from their current cell provider for it.

[samkim]

I don't think it would make much sense for Palm to invest big $ into hardware development and not leverage it across both businesses, especially at the high end. Palm is trying to succeed in both PalmOS and Windows markets.


As for people feeling upset about cooler devices coming out soon after they buy the latest thing... I think that's just a fact of life that we'll all have to get used to.

[DrDoom]

The problem is that a slim, antenna-less 3G Treo, regardless of OS, will be much cooler than any of the other old designs, and people who bought the Treo700w/p 3-4 months previously are going to feel immensely cheated not to have even been offered the choice. Also I understand the 3G phone network (not EDGE, but 3G) is very poorly developed in USA, even by Cingular. With the new Palm sales centre in Europe, it sounds to me as if they are segregating their market.

Surur

...the TRUE test of ANY phone's ability to "survive" in the European market is the ability to play that damn "Crazy Frog" ringtone. Any word on the "Hollywood" doing that? Without Palm will be commiting suicide in that market. :evil:

[DrDoom]

I don't think it would make much sense for Palm to invest big $ into hardware development and not leverage it across both businesses, especially at the high end. Palm is trying to succeed in both PalmOS and Windows markets.


As for people feeling upset about cooler devices coming out soon after they buy the latest thing... I think that's just a fact of life that we'll all have to get used to.
...I don't think that will be a factor in Palm's decision making process. :(

[Scott R]

Remember that the slimness will likely come at a cost. I'd expect a smaller battery at least. That and the indications of it not having an antenna would jive with the rumor that it will be GSM-only, since antenna-less GSM phones are common and GSM consumes less battery power than CDMA.

Beyond the smaller battery, they might leave out memory expansion or switch to miniSD. The camera could get dropped, too.

So for those of you who are thinking of this ultra-thin model as being the top-of-the-line Treo, that may not be the case.

[Treobangla]

Are there any pics/ detailed specs on the Hollywood

[surur]

Remember that the slimness will likely come at a cost. I'd expect a smaller battery at least.
.
.
.
So for those of you who are thinking of this ultra-thin model as being the top-of-the-line Treo, that may not be the case.

The Treo 650 has an exceptionally large battery, at 1900 mah. Its the largest standard battery Ive heard of. Even the very large hp 4705 has only a 1800 mah battery. Its the only reason (besides the small size of the screen) that the Treo 650's back-light can afford to be so bright.

Top of the line is difficult to define. The current top of the line phone is the Razr, but its only top of the line in style. Its seems to be whats important for the majority of regular consumers.

Surur

[HasanDaddy]

The problem is that a slim, antenna-less 3G Treo, regardless of OS, will be much cooler than any of the other old designs, and people who bought the Treo700w/p 3-4 months previously are going to feel immensely cheated not to have even been offered the choice. Also I understand the 3G phone network (not EDGE, but 3G) is very poorly developed in USA, even by Cingular. With the new Palm sales centre in Europe, it sounds to me as if they are segregating their market.

Surur

I recall reading that Moto has not released a RAZR for Verizon or Sprint because they specifically mentioned that CDMA radio technology would require them to make the phone fatter

thus, the Moto Q will neither see time in Sprint/Verizon because it would also lose its 'slimness' under CDMA specifications

thus, it sounds like 'Hollywood' is being developed as a GSM only phone, with no plans to include a CDMA radio, as CDMA systems are inherently more bulky

I also agree that 'Hollywood' will not be their top of the line

the 700p and 700w will both boast EVDO speeds, whereas the 'Hollywood' will likely not be able to accomodate those speeds

lastly - GSM phones don't need antennas either

Palm is doing the right thing --- they'll get EATEN UP by the Moto Q if they keep developing a universal TREO for every phone company

if Cingular/Europe run on GSM and smaller form factors, then Palm should develop around that condition, rather than force every company to adopt a bulky CDMA phone

[JimmieGeddes]

The Moto Q will be on Verizon.

[treoneo]

damn why canlt sprint get the q. I will jumo from treo to that in a minute. That is why probably they won't carry it

[ppcmd]

I see its still a slim phone too.

[marcol]

Remember that the slimness will likely come at a cost. I'd expect a smaller battery at least. That and the indications of it not having an antenna would jive with the rumor that it will be GSM-only, since antenna-less GSM phones are common and GSM consumes less battery power than CDMA.


I think you might be right. Remember the Hawkins Treo 600 video where he talked about the importance of the device having enough juice to be used all day without recharging? I guess they might have abandoned this philosophy, but I think it's unlikely, at least if they're aiming Hollywood at the business market.

As for antennae, I presume there must be some reason that the PPC-6700 has that massive lump sticking out of the top but the GSM versions of the device (K-Jam etc) don't.

[HasanDaddy]

Q on Verizon?

that's news to me

link it

[marcol]

Unconfirmed but looks likely:

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000453068801/

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the battery life?

[sbono13]

cdma razr is coming soon too.

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000420036203/

[rvwink]

Surur,

I have been in contact with Sagio. They even answered a few questions quite credibly. It certainly seems that if Palm built a device to attack the European market, it would combine both no antenna and use the MS windows OS. Interestingly enough the Q was rumored to be coming to Cingular and suddenly that rumor was that they no longer had interest. Could the cancelation of that partnership have been caused by a slender windows based smartphone named "hollywood"?

[manorton]

So, does Palm think we non-Europeans like the antenna or that we have no fashion sense?



<snip>

<snip>
- External antenna disliked by fashion sensitive Europeans
</snip>

</snip>

[Q]

According to Brighthand, Hollywood will run Palm OS. Granted, the same article says Hollywood may be coming to Sprint and mixes up the other rumors we've been hearing, so take it with some salt...

http://www.brighthand.com/article/Palm-s_Treo_Plans_for_2006_II

[JimmieGeddes]

Yea, I also just read brighthand and was shocked to see them say "hollywood" might be on Sprint. I thought "hollywood" was going to be the GSM model for outside the US. I agree with Surur that Europeans like their devices with no antennas, so I am thinking brighthand has gotten this story wrong. I think CDMA phones need to have antennas. I think "hollywood" will run POS , as the Treo700w will be the one and only for a while of the Treo Windows Mobile smartphones for a while.

[Q]

Yea, I also just read brighthand and was shocked to see them say "hollywood" might be on Sprint. I thought "hollywood" was going to be the GSM model for outside the US.

Read the discussion following the article...

http://discussion.brighthand.com/sh...threadid=121653

I agree with Surur that Europeans like their devices with no antennas, so I am thinking brighthand has gotten this story wrong. I think CDMA phones need to have antennas.

No antenna? ;) The Treo 90 was the only model with no antenna. Internal vs. external is another question...

Seriously, I agree. I think that Hollywood will have an internal antenna. There's a much higher percentage of GSM phones with them than CDMA.

I think "hollywood" will run POS , as the Treo700w will be the one and only for a while of the Treo Windows Mobile smartphones for a while.

Has someone gone on record to say that the 700w is the only WinMob Treo?

I think that if one of the other Treos is to run WinMob, that Colligan might have mentioned that during the conference call. Of course, the fact that he didn't is conclusive proof of... absolutely nothing!