Other devices keep innovating and CEBIT shows how far behind Palm is!

[tj8212]

The samsung sgh-i310 that had a 3gb hard drive like yesterday and been upgraded to 8gb. This is like wthin a year, while we claim the have the ultimate smartphone, we cant even get 2gb unless coughng up another $100 for an sd card
http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5012.html

[The Phone Diva]

I've said this before about Palm. But I guess they want to stick with tried and true but also OLDER features. Notice how a lot of their Treo "updates"(rumored or otherwise) should have been on the LAST model.

[tj8212]

This is just crap. My Treo is like choke full of apps. No more space for anything and half of these apps can't run from the sd card

[JackNaylorPE]

I have 72 apps on my 650....19 MB free main memory and about 700MB free on the card....just what do you have on there ?

As for Samsung's Ipod phone....w/o UTMS who will buy that today but the kiddies ?....certainly no business reason to own one.....full qwerty KB ? Touchscreen ? 320 x 320 ? can only fit so much stuff into the proverbial 6 oz bag.

[vittogn]

A lot of beauties like HTC Hermes (T-Mobile MDA Vario II) or Fujitsu Siemens Pocket LOOX T830 or Samsung SGH-i300 and Nokia E-Series have been presented these days in Hannover and last week in Barcelona.

I don't want to open a sw related thread at all (I still love POS and my 650)...........but I really start being annoyed by Palm and his "uninnovative approach". Guys..........the last POS Smartphone has been released by Palm 1.5 years ago!!!!

From an hw point of view Symbian and MS hw producers are increasing the gap with us DAILY!!!!


BTW take a look here and start deraming about something like this with POS!!!

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/6527.html
http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/6538.html

.....hopefully in less than ages!!!

[The Phone Diva]

I feel the same way!

[naivete]

I would like a treo with a 4gb hard drive, but I doubt we will get one anytime soon.

[surur]

A 4Gb SD card should work even better.

Surur

[The Phone Diva]

Kids are using WM5 now?? Well I suppose it's possible. But I think a lot of other people would buy this phone also. It has a nice form factor. No keyboard, but then neither does the 2125 or SDA.

[naivete]

I want a large(at least 4gb) flash-based internal storage for the treo, so the sd slot can be used for other purposes.

[TazUk]

You have to remember that Palm are a relatively small company, they can't bring out products with the frequency of companies like Nokia, HP, Siemens, Samsung etc. Sure it's annoying but as long as the products they do release are good enough then both them and us are happy :)

[ash1348]

Also there is something else that you need to consider. It is Palm's policy to not reveal their products before hand.

[Apanther]

I would like to see at least 4gb flash storage on the next model. for as much as these phones cost, we deserve that.

[whatever7]

My complain is the screen is too small (hello buy one get one free cheap phones) and the connecter is even worst than the 2.5mm jack.

It's so hard to find SD card mp3 phone nowadays, except the POS Moto E3.

[jw68]

I really doubt that the next Treo released by Palm will be even close to the phones shown at Cebit technology wise.

[tj8212]

Dont know if you have all be reading the blogs but the devices being released on wm5 are just way way better than the Treo. have a look at this
http://www.pocketpcitalia.com/News/2006/03/Asus%2Dsvela%2Dil%2DP525%2D%28Immagini%2Dl/
Lets face it, with no new Palm or Linux OS coming out soon, I really dont see how the Treo is going to compete. Heck, I may not want the 700p, or even the Hollywood based on whats being released

[Jeff Kirvin]

Dont know if you have all be reading the blogs but the fish evolving with bony skeletons are just way way better than sharks. Lets face it, with no new Great White or Mako coming out soon, I really dont see how sharks are going to compete. Heck, I don't even want the Tiger Shark, or even the Hammerhead based on whats in the sea.

[JackNaylorPE]

Kids are using WM5 now?? Well I suppose it's possible. But I think a lot of other people would buy this phone also. It has a nice form factor. No keyboard, but then neither does the 2125 or SDA.

Our local high school just banned iPods, phones and all that because it was too much of a distraction and because of the "class distinctions" it wa sbecoming a crime issue. Kids walking round with a $400 iPod and a $150 cell phone might as well ahve one of these. That big HD is being marketed as a place to store tunes, not exactly a business function.

"Samsung SGH-i310 is a fantastic smartphone, that may completely sway your mind, particularly if you are a lover of music (or of another audio, like podcasts). "

[tj8212]

That big HD is being marketed as a place to store tunes, not exactly a business function.

Yeah but it runs wm5 so you can do anything you do with a ppc or a treo 700w for that mater. So if you want to use it as a business device and screen real estate and qwerty is not that important to you , you can use this device.

[JackNaylorPE]

BTW take a look here and start deraming about something like this with POS!!!

http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/6527.html
http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/6538.html


Well tye 1st bunch are iPod phones so I gonna skip them. The 2nd bunch:

T-Mobile MDA Vario II Due out in the third quarter of 2006, price unknown....same time as Hollywood.

Nokia E61 - no camera, no PDA, no headphone jack, no touchscreen and 3G is WCDMA....due out this March....it's March. Also see http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/compare.php?id%5B%5D=834&id%5B%5D=638&id%5B%5D=&id%5B%5D=&id%5B%5D=

Fujitsu Siemens Pocket LOOX T830 - The most interesting one of the bunch....HSDPA version not spec'd tho....and of course MW5 :( . The 800 series phone sare expected in July in Europe starting at around $850 US..., not here till who knows when.

Sony Ericsson M600i - pale compeitor to the 990...not in same league.

BenQ-Siemens P51 - BenQ is not excatly known for delivering announced products.....years is not unusual. And No 3G

Other than FS, none of these gives me the slightest pause. The two (FS and Nokia) most compelling won't be available here before Hollywood so I can't really see what there is to beef about.

If it is because they have made announcements well MS said they were eliminating 3,000 bugs with Win2k....and they introduced 28,000 new ones. These outfits have nothing to lose as they have no significant sales in this market. They want to drum up interest for their entry into the marketplace and have no sales to lose. Why doesn't palm fight vaporware announcements with vaporware ? Cause they don't have to.

[The Phone Diva]

Are they still planning on US business mainly? If so, then maybe it's OK. Globally, I think they need to step it up if they really want to compete!

TazUK, the last product they released(the 700w), actually falls a bit short compared to other devices, IMO. How well would the 700w go overseas with 32MB RAM while most other WM5 devices are 64 RAM? If only they had added the full 64, built-in wi-fi, and no antenna. They would have knocked almost everyone out of the running with that and their form factor and high speed data! What the 700w could have been. :(

[pabo]

uhhh, ok.

If I had a nickel for all the Treo killers, I'd be broke. Announcement does not equal shipping product (let's take BB Connect as an example).

[ShannonElements]

I think I'm confused...

The 700w has 128 MB's of onboard memory, with 60 MB's being user accessible, according to several online specifications listings.

[whatever7]

None of them are new annouce really, maybe except the Samsung 8gb phone. And the Benq LOL P51.

But yeah somebody need to make a phone with 2gb/4gb build-in flash memory. AND with a SD slot. Sony make a phone with 4GB memory in it and they didn't bother to put any god damn expension slot in it. Why do Sony always take 1 step forward and then 1 step backward? Retarded.

[TRgEOff]

Dont know if you have all be reading the blogs but the fish evolving with bony skeletons are just way way better than sharks. Lets face it, with no new Great White or Mako coming out soon, I really dont see how sharks are going to compete. Heck, I don't even want the Tiger Shark, or even the Hammerhead based on whats in the sea.

hehe, I like it SharkMan!



the goat

[tj8212]

Okay, Mr. Jeff Kirvin, I am filing a lawsuit for twisting my own words, thus causing me public humiliation. Just to let you know I am hiring the same lawyer who represented the group who sued the Treo :D

[hoovs]

MS show vaporware? Say it ain't so!

[pizzarascal]

I'm not that excited....lets wait for the actual product before we run out to the store..you know what im sayin'?

[Jeff Kirvin]

Okay, Mr. Jeff Kirvin, I am filing a lawsuit for twisting my own words, thus causing me public humiliation. Just to let you know I am hiring the same lawyer who represented the group who sued the Treo :D
Sorry, man, had to do it. I'm just getting really tired of people making the assumption that the latest bling trumps usability. The Treo 650 is so close to perfect for a smartphone that I really don't care what else is coming out. My Treo works great just the way it is.

I also drive a 99 Dodge Neon with manual windows and door locks, no cruise control and a stock AM/FM radio. It's paid for and runs great.

BTW, love the skins. I use Freeflow daily.

[The Phone Diva]

I think I'm confused...

The 700w has 128 MB's of onboard memory, with 60 MB's being user accessible, according to several online specifications listings.

Only 32MB RAM. The rest is ROM. Randon Access Memory is what's needed to help power the device. Read Only Memory is usually what storage memory is called, although I have heard that's not entirely correct. But without enough RAM, the device will slow down when you open up apps.

[The Phone Diva]

Sorry, I'm with the OP. I believe in moving forward, not staying in the same place year after year!

[ShannonElements]

There are always people who aren't going to be satisfied with what they have, and constantly looking towards 'what's next'. More does not equal better. Just look at the iPod. It dominates the digital audio market, yet it's competition is offering more features(such as FM radio and voice recording), more options, and pretty much more everything and at a much lower price(most of the time). Or look at the Blackberry. It's the only smartphone in the world that's sold more than the Treo cumulatively, and it's not exactly packed with features :rolleyes:

[ShannonElements]

Dont know if you have all be reading the blogs but the fish evolving with bony skeletons are just way way better than sharks. Lets face it, with no new Great White or Mako coming out soon, I really dont see how sharks are going to compete. Heck, I don't even want the Tiger Shark, or even the Hammerhead based on whats in the sea.

That's either the best, or the worst analogy I've ever heard
:p

[ShannonElements]

I wouldn't mind if in upcoming Treos there were different internal memory options. Like the cheapest model might only offer 32 MB's of internal memory, but the most expensive model might come with 4 gigs internal. Obviously, most of us would opt for the high-end model, being that we're power users and all.

[The Phone Diva]

Our local high school just banned iPods, phones and all that because it was too much of a distraction and because of the "class distinctions" it wa sbecoming a crime issue. Kids walking round with a $400 iPod and a $150 cell phone might as well ahve one of these. That big HD is being marketed as a place to store tunes, not exactly a business function.

"Samsung SGH-i310 is a fantastic smartphone, that may completely sway your mind, particularly if you are a lover of music (or of another audio, like podcasts). "

I did see that it's called the Music Maestro but if you can store other things on the HD, I think others besides iPod replacement lookers would get it. WM5 was put on for a reason and it probably wasn't for music. Why would you need a major smartphone software to listen to music? Samsung might be trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Smartphone + iPod-like feature = no need to carry an iPod and a smartphone separately.

[Franko515]

I am content with my Treo, BUT. If another Treo (Palm not Windows) comes out and happens to have more memory (not much more, maybe doubled), reads 4gb SD cards and above, the ability to listen to music or movies over bluetooth, better sound quality (without adding apps, i.e. VC), WiFi would also be nice but not a deal breaker and it wouldnt hurt if it came with a cradle and case, i think i would then and only then upgrade.

OH YEAH, and a stronger IR :D

Yes i know about the different "hacks" for the Treo 650, but i dont want hacks. I want these things included

[TazUk]

The specs on Palms website state memory 128MB (60MB user accessible) non-volatile, by the fact it says non-volatile means they are referring to RAM rather than ROM ;)

[ShannonElements]

The specs on Palms website state memory 128MB (60MB user accessible) non-volatile, by the fact it says non-volatile means they are referring to RAM rather than ROM ;)

That's what I thought too. And people always talk about the 700w having 60-something megs of RAM. Get your facts straight LT! :p

[RebelShadow]

if it ain't broke... don't fix it.

[TazUk]

Ok I'm confussed now, found this page which has says the following


The Palm Treo 700w smartphone ships with a total memory of 128 MB of Flash ROM and 32 MB of SDRAM.

The use of the 128MB of flash ROM is broken down as follows:

• 60 MB is dedicated user storage for installing third party applications or personal data files (this is denoted under "Storage" in the memory mgmt app) AND

• The remaining memory is used to store the Windows Mobile operating system, as well as Palm and mobile operator applications (this is not denoted in the memory management app because it isn't user accessible).

"Programs" in the Memory management application refers to available SDRAM. The Treo 700w supports 32MB of SDRAM of which a portion SDRAM is protected to support core device peripherals and functionality like capturing a 1.3MP image. This is true for all Windows Mobile products.

The remaining SDRAM, displayed as Total Program memory (25MB), is used to meet the run time needs of the system (drivers and in ROM applications) as well as third party applications.


http://mobilitytoday.com/news/006040/mobility_Palm_Treo_700W_memory%20allocation

[ShannonElements]

"The Palm Treo 700w smartphone ships with a total memory of 128 MB of Flash ROM and 32 MB of SDRAM."

So it has 160 MB's of internal memory then? :rolleyes:

[dstrauss]

That's what I thought too. And people always talk about the 700w having 60-something megs of RAM. Get your facts straight LT! :p

LT and TazUK are right on this one. WM5 is similar to grown up Windows. Think of ROM as hard drive and RAM as system ram. The OS, programs, and a mirror of system ram (like WinXP hibernation) in case of power failure. RAM has a portion reserved for the OS, leaving 24-25mb for running programs.

When Palm says 128mb, 60mb user accessable, that includes system ram and unused space in ROM.

[ShannonElements]

Yeah, but LT and TazUK disagree! WTF? So there's no EXACT documentation of how much RAM there is? It's just 24, 25MB, give or take? Why does almost everyone think the 700 has 60+ megs of RAM? So you mean to tell me that out of 128 megs total internal memory, almost a hundred of that is necessary for WM?

...

One more point in the favor of POS...

[TazUk]

Think of ROM as hard drive...

That's the bit that confuses me, ROM is Read Only Memory, Flash ROM is different in that it can be written to but is still reserved for things that remain static i.e. firmware. If you can install apps and store personal data files to it then is sounds more like NVRAM to me rather than ROM. The figure of 60Mb lines up with the what Palm state as usable memory, but then that doesn't include the 32Mb SDRAM :confused:

[surur]

How about trusting the people that know. It has 60 MB of storage and 24 MB ram free, and 10 after boot time. This compared to 60 MB free storage and 44MB free ram on the ppc 6700. The low amount of free ram compromises multi-tasking compared to other devices.

Surur

[ExtraOrdinaryJo]

It's been on the market for 2 months and we still can't agree how much memory the stupid 700w actually has? And this is a tech community??? :p :D

[pabo]

I also drive a 99 Dodge Neon with manual windows and door locks, no cruise control and a stock AM/FM radio. It's paid for and runs great.


Sam Walton started that way (actually stayed that way as well).

...could learn a lot from you.

I once got 100k miles on a stock rear set of tires on my Neon.

[surur]

We know exactly. PPCtech has taken the device apart and found a 32MB SDRAM chip. Its only Palm itself and its fanatical adherents who are clouding the issue.


The chip removed was a Samsung K4S56163LF 256Mb chip.

We put in an Infineon 512Mb chip.

Regards,

Leonard
http://treo.discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=103860&page=5&pp=20

256 Mbit= 32 MB

Surur

[ExtraOrdinaryJo]

If there are "better" devices on the market...as in, available to purchase today...I suggest you go buy one and live happily ever after.

Seems simple to me. Why does this need to be discussed ad nauseum? :confused:

[jorang]

I agree that we all have our own descision to make regarding our way further from here, but I also agree that if Palm does not aim to compete this WM5 devices they will become a local fenomena in the US only...

[The Phone Diva]

That's what I thought too. And people always talk about the 700w having 60-something megs of RAM. Get your facts straight LT! :p

Talk to PPC Techs who removed a 32MB RAM chip to try to do a 64MB RAM upgrade.

[The Phone Diva]

We know exactly. PPCtech has taken the device apart and found a 32MB SDRAM chip. Its only Palm itself and its fanatical adherents who are clouding the issue.


http://treo.discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=103860&page=5&pp=20

256 Mbit= 32 MB

Surur


I should have read the rest of the thread first. :D

[jorang]

I totally agree that the FS T830 looks most promising of them all. My only concern is te WIDE black screen border. A real turn off :|

The BenQ P51 looks promising too doesn't it? Is 3G a real matter when WiFi is included?

[The Phone Diva]

Alternate reception choices on the same device are better, IMO.

[ShannonElements]

If there are "better" devices on the market...as in, available to purchase today...I suggest you go buy one and live happily ever after.

Seems simple to me. Why does this need to be discussed ad nauseum? :confused:

I know what you mean. So many people complain that the Treo isn't up to snuff anymore(no wi-fi mainly, which we all know isn't going to happen anytime soon), and how there are so many superior devices out there. Well, just move on already. I think though, that they all still love the Treo and want us to talk them out of going to the dark side
;)

[ExtraOrdinaryJo]

I know what you mean. So many people complain that the Treo isn't up to snuff anymore(no wi-fi mainly, which we all know isn't going to happen anytime soon), and how there are so many superior devices out there. Well, just move on already. I think though, that they all still love the Treo and want us to talk them out of going to the dark side
;)
Agreed. They could also be trying to convince themselves that the other devices will satisfy them the way only a Treo really can. ;)

[ShannonElements]

I know this is all rather inconsequential, but you mean to to tell me that people actually had to take the 700 apart to see how much RAM it had? And that Palm is lying?

[ExtraOrdinaryJo]

I know this is all rather inconsequential, but you mean to to tell me that people actually had to take the 700 apart to see how much RAM it had? And that Palm is lying?
"Clouding the issue". Is that lying?

[The Phone Diva]

Then again, this is also a DISCUSSION board where discussion of other devices isn't prohibited. Until discussion of other devices is not allowed, you think everyone is supposed to agree on all subjects? The OP wants to express an opinion and hints that he may be looking at other devices, the Mod has not asked him to leave, so apparently there's no real problem with him doing so!

I agree this board is mainly for the Treo, but you can't really stop people from expressing other opinions.

[ShannonElements]

C'mon Jo, don't cloud the issue:p

[Jeff Kirvin]

I agree this board is mainly for the Treo, but you can't really stop people from expressing other opinions.
By the same token, I'm free to disagree with those opinions and counter with my own.

You know, discussion.

[ShannonElements]

We never said everyone was supposed to agree. Don't put words into our mouths. We never complained about - nor have we tried to stop- people expressing their opinions. All we're saying is, that if all these other devices are so fantastic, and you're SOOOO disappointed with the Treo, then just move on already, and save us all the constant whining.

[Insertion]

Wow. A bit lactose intolerant?

[The Phone Diva]

I rest my case. Your post is contradictory. Until the Mod tells people to stop discussing other devices, we still have a right to.

[The Phone Diva]

Palm just "forgot" to break down the memory for us. They added it all together, thinking average people won't know the difference.

[ShannonElements]

What are you, a lawyer? Care to explain how my post is contradictory? I'm not saying I have a problem with you discussing other devices(although this is the 'Treo General Chat' section of the forums). I just don't understand. If you like these other devices so much more, and you don't think the Treo can cut it anymore, why not just move on to these other devices? Am I missing something?

[surur]

I know this is all rather inconsequential, but you mean to to tell me that people actually had to take the 700 apart to see how much RAM it had? And that Palm is lying?

No. In fact we knew from the memory applet how much ram it had to have, but people like you appear to need physical proof before you can accept that Palm shortchanged the Treo 700w. It was pretty obvious, with the Treo 700w having 20MB less memory free than the ppc 6700, that it could not have a 64 MB SDRAM chip.

Surur

[ShannonElements]

No. In fact we knew from the memory applet how much ram it had to have, but people like you appear to need physical proof before you can accept that Palm shortchanged the Treo 700w. It was pretty obvious, with the Treo 700w having 20MB less memory free than the ppc 6700, that it could not have a 64 MB SDRAM chip.

Surur

"People like you"? What the hell does that mean? I don't need physical proof, it's just a little confusing because I've heard so many different things in regards to how much RAM the 700 has(due to Palm clouding the issue I guess?), I was just wondering why there's such a discrepancy. Of course, I don't even own a 700, so it doesn't matter to me one way or another. I'm just curious is all.

[The Phone Diva]

You basically said we should shut up about comparing the Treo to other devices.

Maybe the Mod should move this thread to "Other Handhelds".

BTW, I did move to several other devices. And might again if the 700p is too much like the 650. Or maybe I'll sell the 650 to pay for the 700, not sure yet. But I still have the 650 because it is the best Palm OS phone ever.

[Insertion]

"People like you"? What the hell does that mean? I don't need physical proof, it's just a little confusing because I've heard so many different things in regards to how much RAM the 700 has(due to Palm clouding the issue I guess?), I was just wondering why there's such a discrepancy. Of course, I don't even own a 700, so it doesn't matter to me one way or another. I'm just curious is all.
I guess "people like you" shouldn't be curious. :rolleyes:

[ShannonElements]

That is NOT basically what I said(although this IS the 'TREO GENERAL CHAT' section of these forums); that's basically how you perceived what I said. Damn internet. And my comment wasn't directed just at you LT. I know you've moved on to other devices(your sig makes that pretty obvious, after all). But there are so many people who HAVEN'T moved to other devices who are constantly complaining about being disappointed with the Treo, and I'm just a little baffled as to why they don't jut move on already. Maybe it's because they're not as disappointed as they say?

[ExtraOrdinaryJo]

I never said shut up. I also never said it's not alright to discuss anything.

What I was commenting on was the constant whining, by several posters, about how Palm is not keeping up with all these "other great devices" and how the Treo is lacking X or Y, especially when many of the "other great devices" are not even available on the marlet yet. I don't see the point. If YOU think another device is better...use it. Simple.

Now, discussing technical differences....WITHOUT THE WHINING....is an entirely different matter, and can be fun. But it does belong in the "other devices" forum...not that I really care.

On a different note...the munk avatar sandwiched between the two, far more attractive avatars, is just....out of place. No offense monkey boy, I'm sure you wouldn't be objecting to that. :D

[ShannonElements]

If there are "better" devices on the market...as in, available to purchase today...I suggest you go buy one and live happily ever after.

Seems simple to me. Why does this need to be discussed ad nauseum? :confused:

This comment pretty much sums it up for me.

[Insertion]

On a different note...the munk avatar sandwiched between the two, far more attractive avatars, is just....out of place. No offense monkey boy, I'm sure you wouldn't be objecting to that. :DI can't think of many better places to be, then sandwiched between LT and Sung Hi.

[ShannonElements]

I can't think of many better places to be, then sandwiched between LT and Sung Hi.

And a nice glass of milk. All we need are some chocolate chip cookies!
:D

[rambo47]

My Treo 650 is the best PDA/Phone I've had yet, and by a huge margin. I've had several Blackberries, a few Windows Mobile phones, and quite a few non-smart phones like the Sony-Ericsson T610, V800, Panasonic G55, Nokia 3220. My Treo (upgraded most recently from the Treo 600) does more than any other device, and does it better. But having said that, my Quest for the Most Amazing Phone Ever™ doesn't end with the Treo. I'm very curious about this new Asus phone. I'm no fan of Windows Mobile, but this thing looks to be packed with features. The WiFi part jumped off the page at me. Yeah, I'll take a good hard look, maybe even buy one. Of course, by the time it actually ships I may be so enamored with my Treo 770p that I won't want to mess with a Windows device.

[TazUk]

I would still like the ROM/NVRAM question answered as I too am curious :p

[ShannonElements]

I guess "people like you" shouldn't be curious. :rolleyes:

Right, because I might not buy a 700w in the future :rolleyes:

[surur]

Stop being so skeptical then! You come across like that Blazer fellow, always doubting what is obvious to everyone else who has spent some times on the board, asking for extra-ordinary proof when the majority has long been satisfied, and attacking people who know more than you, e.g.

That's what I thought too. And people always talk about the 700w having 60-something megs of RAM. Get your facts straight LT!

Has it ever occurred to you that people might disagree with you because they know more about a subject than you do? Maybe you should defer to people that have been around longer, and likely know what they are talking about.

Surur

[ShannonElements]

I would still like the ROM/NVRAM question answered as I too am curious :p

Don't forget, as per Teh Munk, "people like you" shouldn't be curious:p

It's apparently a 'need to know' basis :p

[ExtraOrdinaryJo]

No. In fact we knew from the memory applet how much ram it had to have, but people like you appear to need physical proof before you can accept that Palm shortchanged the Treo 700w. It was pretty obvious, with the Treo 700w having 20MB less memory free than the ppc 6700, that it could not have a 64 MB SDRAM chip.

Surur
Wow, lighten up. It's a crappy WM wanna-be-smart phone. :p

Not everyone cares about this as deeply as you appear to. :rolleyes:

[TazUk]

Maybe you should defer to people that have been around longer, and likely know what they are talking about.

What's length of membership/number of posts got to do with whether someone knows what they are talking about or not :confused:

[ShannonElements]

Stop being so skeptical then! You come across like that Blazer fellow, always doubting what is obvious to everyone else who has spent some times on the board, asking for extra-ordinary proof when the majority has long been satisfied, and attacking people who know more than you, e.g.



Has it ever occurred to you that people might disagree with you because they know more about a subject than you do? Maybe you should defer to people that have been around longer, and likely know what they are talking about.

Surur

When did I ask for extraordinary proof? When there's so many discrepancies out there, it's hard not to doubt. I have not attacked anyone. I simply enjoy debate, and am a curious, non-political person. If anyone is under the impression that I have attacked them then I apologize, and hope you can forgive me. Such was not my intention. But comparing me to Slinky...c'mon, that just isn't fair.

[TazUk]

Don't forget, as per Teh Munk, "people like you" shouldn't be curious:p

Hey I've been like that since a very young age, can't see it changing anytime soon :p

[Insertion]

What's length of membership/number of posts got to do with whether someone knows what they are talking about or not :confused:
That is also on a NTK basis. And I imagine "people like you" :rolleyes: don't need to know...

[ExtraOrdinaryJo]

What's length of membership/number of posts got to do with whether someone knows what they are talking about or not :confused:
Well, Palm says it's 1824, but since Surur only has 455, it's pretty obvious that you really only need more than 450. Blame Palm for clouding the issue. :p :D

[ShannonElements]

Palm just "forgot" to break down the memory for us. They added it all together, thinking average people won't know the difference.

OK, I understand. So it's on a NTK basis then? Hahaha:p

[TazUk]

Well, Palm says it's 1824, but since Surur only has 455, it's pretty obvious that you really only need more than 450.

Damn, so with my post count only in the forties I must barely know how to turn it on :hmm: What number of posts do I need to get to before I can start using third party applications :p

[ShannonElements]

Damn, so with my post count only in the forties I must barely know how to turn it on :hmm: What number of posts do I need to get to before I can start using third party applications :p

100. You had better keep plugging away
:p

[surur]

ROM is an old word. For the purposed of this discussion ROM=NVRAM. NVRAM is used for storage in both PalmOS Garnet and WM5. Execution takes place in the Dynamic heap in POS and Program Memory in WM (both normal SDRAM, like your desktop).

The Treo 650 has 32MB NVRAM (23MB available) and 32MB SDRAM. The NVRAM is used for storage, and the SDRAM is used for transient storage (the DBCACHE) and Execution (Dynamic heap).

The Treo 700w has 128MB NVRAM (60MB available) and 32MB SDRAM. The NVRAM is again used for storage, and the SDRAM for execution (like the ram on your desktop).

The problem people have with the Treo 700w is that while it has a 32MB SDRAM chip, all its contemporaries have 64MB SDRAM. As you may know from your desktop machine, it doesnt matter how much storage you have if you have too little ram. The shortage of ram is causing people to have to soft-reset their devices to reclaim memory. Thats not really desirable.

I hope that clears it up any confusion..

Surur

[Japorms]

The future treos are as good as dead. our 650's will be classics. unless palm acquires a good, rich partner.

[johncc]

SE,
Another thing motivating the flippant and tongue in cheek responses to your questioning is that the topic has already been done to death in other threads.

eg
http://discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=103860
http://discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=106268

[TazUk]

ROM is an old word. For the purposed of this discussion ROM=NVRAM.

Ok, that's what I assumed they meant.

The Treo 700w has 128MB NVRAM (60MB available)...

So the base WM system takes 68Mb compared to 9Mb for PalmOS :eek:

I hope that clears it up any confusion..

Yes thanks :)

[ShannonElements]

Ah, I see. Thanks for the links John. Next time, before I ask a question I'll make sure to do an extensive search as not to garner any flippant and tongue-in-cheek responses from the resident gurus.

[ShannonElements]

So the base WM system takes 68Mb compared to 9Mb for PalmOS :eek:

That's one of the things that was confusing me too, but I don't want to have any more flippant or tongue-in-cheek responses aimed at me, so I'll just shut the hell up
:p

[Insertion]

I wish to insert my tongue into Sungs cheek.

[ShannonElements]

I wish to insert my tongue into Sungs cheek.

Lol, that's about as far off topic as you can go!
:D

[ExtraOrdinaryJo]

I wish to insert my tongue into Sungs cheek.
I'd have to ask which cheek? Or do you really mean you want her to stick HER tongue in your cheek? The possibilities, though endless, are fun to ponder... ;) :D

[ShannonElements]

ROM is an old word. For the purposed of this discussion ROM=NVRAM. NVRAM is used for storage in both PalmOS Garnet and WM5. Execution takes place in the Dynamic heap in POS and Program Memory in WM (both normal SDRAM, like your desktop).

The Treo 650 has 32MB NVRAM (23MB available) and 32MB SDRAM. The NVRAM is used for storage, and the SDRAM is used for transient storage (the DBCACHE) and Execution (Dynamic heap).

The Treo 700w has 128MB NVRAM (60MB available) and 32MB SDRAM. The NVRAM is again used for storage, and the SDRAM for execution (like the ram on your desktop).

The problem people have with the Treo 700w is that while it has a 32MB SDRAM chip, all its contemporaries have 64MB SDRAM. As you may know from your desktop machine, it doesnt matter how much storage you have if you have too little ram. The shortage of ram is causing people to have to soft-reset their devices to reclaim memory. Thats not really desirable.

I hope that clears it up any confusion..

Surur


Thanks for the info. I don't know how there could've ever been any confusion!

[dstrauss]

Yeah, but LT and TazUK disagree! WTF? So there's no EXACT documentation of how much RAM there is? It's just 24, 25MB, give or take? Why does almost everyone think the 700 has 60+ megs of RAM? So you mean to tell me that out of 128 megs total internal memory, almost a hundred of that is necessary for WM?

...

One more point in the favor of POS...

Yes

Yes (if it could just multi-task and handle WiFi at same time). :D

[ronbo2000]

<merged>

[jorang]

This tread seems to be OT all the way through.
Couldn't we just stop discussing the discussion and start to discuss the issue in the first post?

[Mtreosexual]

The discussion topic is a hard fact .
I am not sure whether discussion is going to bring a solution.
Palm thinks, that they probably do not need innovation, minor upgrades are just fine ,as long as they are being sold for hundreds and by millions, and as long as they are making profits .

[TazUk]

Palm thinks, that they probably do not need inovation, minor upgrades are just fine ,as long as they are being sold for hundreds and by millions, and as long as they are making profits .

So no different then any other corporate, their main aim is keeping their shareholders happy.

[morningstar1844]

I've said this before about Palm. But I guess they want to stick with tried and true but also OLDER features. Notice how a lot of their Treo "updates"(rumored or otherwise) should have been on the LAST model.


I am with you on this "Lady Treo", Palm is always playing catch up!!!

[Jeff Kirvin]

I am with you on this "Lady Treo", Palm is always playing catch up!!!
OTOH, they called it "bleeding edge" for a reason.

There's an old saying that goes back to the dawn of the jet age, "pushing the envelope." The idea is that if you chart a graph with altitude on the vertical axis and speed on the horizontal, test pilots were always trying to get to that upper right corner, faster and highter than anyone else. What no one wanted to talk about is that this was also where the postage gets canceled.

[dstrauss]

OTOH, they called it "bleeding edge" for a reason.

There's an old saying that goes back to the dawn of the jet age, "pushing the envelope." The idea is that if you chart a graph with altitude on the vertical axis and speed on the horizontal, test pilots were always trying to get to that upper right corner, faster and highter than anyone else. What no one wanted to talk about is that this was also where the postage gets canceled.

However, many of these "innovations" have gone beyond "bleeding edge/push the envelope" to mainstream, and they still don't find their way onto a Palm device.

32mb on a WM5 device - how refreshing.

Programs run from SD without ZLauncher, how inventive.

Would you like WiFi with that - watch my David Spader lips - NO!.

Standard mini-D USB connector - no way, we like broken pins.

"What did you say?" on both ends of Treo 650 conversation - priceless.

None of these "features" are bleeding edge.

[surur]

So no different then any other corporate, their main aim is keeping their shareholders happy.

Well, Jeff says POS has >50% market share (http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=902089&postcount=28) worldwide. Palm must be ecstatic shipping > 20 million devices per year.

Yes, the market is booming. I'm pleased to find that somebody agrees with me on that point. But at the same time Palm sales have been declining. Unless you think that Palm went from 90% marketshare to 35% because the market tripled in size.

No, I think those numbers are disingenuous. The 90% marketshare was just PDAs when smartphones didn't exist. The 35% marketshare is also just PDAs and no smartphones, today. Add Treos into that number, and Palm OS is over 50%. That's a majority.

If I owned the majority of the market I would not feel in a hurry to innovate either.

Surur

[The Phone Diva]

You have to innovate to keep ahead. Otherwise someone else will.

[Mtreosexual]

OTOH, they called it "bleeding edge" for a reason.

There's an old saying that goes back to the dawn of the jet age, "pushing the envelope." The idea is that if you chart a graph with altitude on the vertical axis and speed on the horizontal, test pilots were always trying to get to that upper right corner, faster and highter than anyone else. What no one wanted to talk about is that this was also where the postage gets canceled.

Bleeding edge ..... My A$$$$$$$$$$. :rolleyes:

[Jeff Kirvin]

Well, Jeff says POS has >50% market share (http://www.1src.com/forums/showpost.php?p=902089&postcount=28) worldwide. Palm must be ecstatic shipping > 20 million devices per year.

If I owned the majority of the market I would not feel in a hurry to innovate either.

Surur
Actually, Surur, I was talking about just the US market in that post.

You know, the only one that matters.

[morningstar1844]

Dont know if you have all be reading the blogs but the devices being released on wm5 are just way way better than the Treo. have a look at this
http://www.pocketpcitalia.com/News/2006/03/Asus%2Dsvela%2Dil%2DP525%2D%28Immagini%2Dl/
Lets face it, with no new Palm or Linux OS coming out soon, I really dont see how the Treo is going to compete. Heck, I may not want the 700p, or even the Hollywood based on whats being released

Us guys and gals with sprint have no choice; really; just the 6700 or the Palm Treo 650.

Sprint needs to get off their duff with a small choice of smart phones,

Oh well a year from now something should be good on the horizon!!

Perry I hope we don't have to wait till 4-24-07 (don't have a Heart Attack)


J.G

[The Phone Diva]

Actually, Surur, I was talking about just the US market in that post.

You know, the only one that matters.

That's not entirely true. USA market is no longer the be all and end all. You did notice that technology has gone global?

[Midknight]

That's not entirely true. USA market is no longer the be all and end all. You did notice that technology has gone global?

Yep, when it comes to cellphones, Europe and Asia are usually 2-3 years ahead of U.S. :brick:

Too bad more of HTC's products aren't licensed by U.S. carriers, the Universal looks awesome. :D

[surur]

No, I think those numbers are disingenuous. The 90% marketshare was just PDAs when smartphones didn't exist. The 35% marketshare is also just PDAs and no smartphones, today. Add Treos into that number, and Palm OS is over 50%. That's a majority

Actually, Surur, I was talking about just the US market in that post.

You know, the only one that matters.

I thought Palm had >35% market share for PDA's in the USA. Dont they claim 78% retail? Sounds like some funky maths going on there.

Surur

[bigboy650]

At the end of the day, it's our fault. We are Palm loyal, and when there is nothing else being offered with POS, we buy Palm products. It's almost a classical monopoly. But we still keep buying. Until there is some true competition to the Treo form factor and ease of use, we must be content with what Palm comes out with or buy something else. Period.

A company will not innovate when there is nothing to compete against. It just doesn't make sense. Sadly, we are not the important factors here, it is the shareholders and the carriers that matter. Even though we are the end users, most of Palm's Treo customers are the carriers. We are not really their customers. We are Sprint, Cingular, Verizon, and GSM customers, not Palm's.

If anyone is so dead-set for Palm innovation, they will NOT buy their products. One person may not speak loudly, but legions of them will. However, I do not see that happening.

Bottom line? We are left to be happy with what Palm comes out with or buy something else.

[Jeff Kirvin]

That's not entirely true. USA market is no longer the be all and end all. You did notice that technology has gone global?
Actually, I was just trying to annoy Surur, an admitted Brit.

[hova]

At the end of the day, it's our fault. We are Palm loyal, and when there is nothing else being offered with POS, we buy Palm products. It's almost a classical monopoly. But we still keep buying. Until there is some true competition to the Treo form factor and ease of use, we must be content with what Palm comes out with or buy something else. Period.

A company will not innovate when there is nothing to compete against. It just doesn't make sense. Sadly, we are not the important factors here, it is the shareholders and the carriers that matter. Even though we are the end users, most of Palm's Treo customers are the carriers. We are not really their customers. We are Sprint, Cingular, Verizon, and GSM customers, not Palm's.

If anyone is so dead-set for Palm innovation, they will NOT buy their products. One person may not speak loudly, but legions of them will. However, I do not see that happening.

Bottom line? We are left to be happy with what Palm comes out with or buy something else.

Bless his heart! Couldnt have said it any better. We are not palm customers and we are POWER end users at that. All this discussion aint gonna change nothing.

[ShannonElements]

That's not entirely true. USA market is no longer the be all and end all. You did notice that technology has gone global?

When has the US market EVER been the 'be all end all'? Regardless though, the US IS the dominant market. If your product succeeds in the US, it succeeds on a wordwide scale. That's why there's no single smartphone anywhere in the world that's outsold the Treo or Blackberry.

[ronbo2000]

I can't think of many better places to be, then sandwiched between LT and Sung Hi.
My simian friend, after ShannonElements decided to change his avatar to Jason Alexander, your post sure reads funny. :D :D

[ShannonElements]

The Munk loves my 'lovely man lumps'... :crazy:

[The Phone Diva]

When has the US market EVER been the 'be all end all'? Regardless though, the US IS the dominant market. If your product succeeds in the US, it succeeds on a wordwide scale. That's why there's no single smartphone anywhere in the world that's outsold the Treo or Blackberry.

We used to be first in almost everything, now.... :(
The US is A dominant market, not necessarily THE dominant market.

[Insertion]

The Munk loves my 'lovely man lumps'... :crazy:I prefer my (pri)mates smoooooth. We'll need to wax you. BTW, did I ever tell the story of this girl I was with, way back when...there we were, nice and intimate like, when I saw it. A friggin hair sprouting from her breast.
:eek:

Only because I was still in my teens, did I not deflate at that instant. :mad:

Talk about buzz kill though :thumbsdn:

[dstrauss]

Munk - I know a good shrink if you're interested.

ShannonElements - kitty to fox to skunk; you need some serious therapy :eek:

Or is this just the result of a milk diet?

[JackNaylorPE]

I thought Palm had >35% market share for PDA's in the USA. Dont they claim 78% retail? Sounds like some funky maths going on there.

Surur

the confusion comes from IDC and Gartner having different definitions of what is a smartphone, handheld and PDA. For example the Treo is not in the same category as the BB so when BB and Palm are compared, Palm's 2 million Treo sales are not inluded in the 4.23 mill for BB to 2.72 for palm comparison. Add the two togtehr, as Palm does, and the numbers make sense....all the numbers and explanations are in the "Palm in Trouble" thread