Treo 670!? On HowardForums, Treonauts, engadget, etc.

[MikeK2]

Check it out. This has to be fake:

http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=695201

Mike

[Antoine of MMM]

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?p=765539#post765539

[alex_mathews]

Looks photoshoped.

[MikeK2]

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?p=765539#post765539

Yeah, I figured someone would've posted an actual thread for this, so I didn't search when I didn't see one. :D

Oh well, can't have too many Treo rumor threads can we? :rolleyes:

Mike

[Druce MacFarlane]

I managed to smuggle this out of Palm's labs for a quick photo. It is a little grainy, but you can still make it out.

This is the forthcomming Treo 680n. It does not have Palm or Windows, but NewtonOS. It also has a Skype client, built in Blackberry, a 5gb hard drive, and Zigbee wireless in addition to Bluetooth and EVDO. Unfortunately, it still doesn't have WiFi. :confused:

[ash1348]

All right, that guy has posted a video of the phone

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=0804051316

[whatever7]

The video is real.

I would be very disappointed if Palm stop using PalmOS all together. Wouldn't all those people who have brought Palm software get screwed over? What about the devcelopers?

I just brought the TomTom kit I don't know if my license will work on a PPC phone.

If they make a PPC version for Verizon and a Cobalt version for Sprint than I don't care.

[chillig35]

video is real - what about the phone? it doesn't like a Palm/Treo device - more like a Samsung

[jw68]

Just because Palm is considering using Windows dosen't mean that they will abandon PalmOS. For them to simply ignore Windows is a disservice to their customers and their shareholders. Bottom line is that they have to make a profit and its simply a business decision.

[seaflipper]

Have you guys seen this yet? Roc a fella over at Howard Forums has pics and a video of a Treo670 in his hands running Windows Mobile 5.0 He says he is going to get his hands on a Cobalt version hopefully too...


Sweet!

http://images10.fotki.com/v205/photos/2/219385/2254750/0804051318-vi.jpg

and the video is here:

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=0804051316

Cool...

Article Link:
http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=695201&page=1&pp=15

[LinuxGuy]

Pics:

http://images10.fotki.com/v205/photos/2/219385/2254750/0804051318-vi.jpg
http://images9.fotki.com/v173/photos/2/219385/2500782/0804051322-vi.jpg

Videos:

http://x402.putfile.com/videos/21615043256.3g2
http://x402.putfile.com/videos/21615323226.3g2

supposedly:

1.3 mp camera
EVDO
Palm Cobalt OS or Windows Media 5.0 (2005)

The keyboard is a bit different (the video shows it). Has bigger phone buttons.

Read the thread:

http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=695201&page=1&pp=15

[Thunder God]

i hope there are two versions of the 650 or 670---one with ms and one with palm. reason being it will force palm software to get better. as of right now, the palm os developers seem not to care what else is out there

[albertb]

SO IT'S TRUE!!! Can't fake the video, but how the heck is it Verizon branded?

[LinuxGuy]

More pics posted:

blurry view of OS details (can see that it has 32MB of ram, and the CPU model)
http://images10.fotki.com/v203/photos/2/219385/2500782/0805051537-vi.jpg

whole phone view
http://images10.fotki.com/v203/photos/2/219385/2500782/0805051512a-vi.jpg

[MarkY]

With a Verizon branding I doubt that network will release it anytime soon considering they just came out with the 650.

[Cigarster]

COOL!!! But I can't seem to watch the video...what are you using to watch it?

[anthonymoody]

MarkY,

One thing has nothing to do with the other. We'll see this sooner than everyone thinks, with lovely EV-DO speeds. hint: any large electronics shows happening in the next few months? I can think of two...

TM

[LinuxGuy]

COOL!!! But I can't seem to watch the video...what are you using to watch it?
Quicktime can play them, probably others. On Linux I used mplayer.

If you have Quicktime installed, try these links for the videos.

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=0804051316
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=0805051513

[Cigarster]

Thanks LinexGuy...works perfect!

[millsda2]

My skepticism has just kicked in now that I've seen the Windows flag.

[baby_arm]

Oh I can't wait until that comes out. I'm going to to request SPCS upgrade my 650 to the Windows version. Still can't get past the OLERR errors. I hope it is released soon.

[SoloAlpha06]

Quicktime can play them, probably others. On Linux I used mplayer.

If you have Quicktime installed, try these links for the videos.

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=0804051316
http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=0805051513

I still can't view the videos

[Fahsad]

omfg.. its the END of the WORLD.. i can hardly believe it.. maybe i dont want to..

although.. on the engadget comments section, someone DID list a good point. it COULD be still be a hoax.. with an altered Treo merely running a video of Windows for a smartphone..

maybe im just having trouble accepting the fact that palm OS is dying..

[dutchtrumpet]

omfg.. its the END of the WORLD.. i can hardly believe it.. maybe i dont want to..

although.. on the engadget comments section, someone DID list a good point. it COULD be still be a hoax.. with an altered Treo merely running a video of Windows for a smartphone..

maybe im just having trouble accepting the fact that palm OS is dying..
except that the hardware is different and matches the other prototypes posted here earlier.

look at the buttons/keyboard.

[KRamsauer]

I'm not calling BS on this, but I could easily replicate this if I had that prototype Treo 650 that was shown earlier on these very boards (and is in the videos),.

[KRamsauer]

Actually, I partially rescind my last comment. I think the treo has a one pixel white boarder when playing movies (at least TCPMP does). I did not see that in the movies above.

[Fahsad]

i was actually referring to this post
http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/2005/08/more_treo_700_h.php

as Indicator had linked in another post..

it could very well be another HTC prototype parading as a treo upgrade..

.... but all things considered.. i think this new model is very possible.. sadly

[TheBigBadWolf]

man this sucks, I just bought a brand new Treo 650 this past Wed. should I be looking to get my money back? I have 2 weeks to decide I guess...I just got rid of my SX66 for Cingular if I knew this was true I would have just kept it. This is not cool...

[Fahsad]

nahh.. either way, you look at it.. EVEN if this thing is real and its coming out, its obviously barely past test stages.. im guessing the EARLIEST it'll come out is Q1 or maybe even Q2 of next year.. even the Motorola Q, which they're already advertising on their website won't be out until Q1 next year.. ALSO, the version we see is Verizon.. and it always takes time to make different models for different carriers, especially if you're talking about the switch from CDMA to GSM.. since you're cingular ( as am i).. we still have a while to go
my contract runs up in july so im guessing by then it'll have just come out a month or so prior.. which is perfect for me to read up on reviews, forum talk, and etc. on it before making my decision on buying it.. =P

[dwman]

Looks real to me

http://blog.treonauts.com/

[wanderman]

Here's a short roundup of all the (shocking) news, pictures and video relating to the Treo 670...

http://blog.treonauts.com/2005/08/treo_670_runnin.html

Cheers, W.

[lazieboss]

this has already been posted: http://discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=92520

[dwman]

my bad

[ButtUglyJeff]

The only thing that makes me throw up a flag is the "Verizion" branding on it..........

I would suspect a "beta" to have no carrier marking, or maybe the new "palm" emblem instead. And no windows emblem behind the battery.

But that doesn't make it any less interesting.

[dolo]

omfg.. its the END of the WORLD.. i can hardly believe it.. maybe i dont want to..

although.. on the engadget comments section, someone DID list a good point. it COULD be still be a hoax.. with an altered Treo merely running a video of Windows for a smartphone..

maybe im just having trouble accepting the fact that palm OS is dying..

very possible - however, i have frequented the hofo forums for a looong time now.

roc is sincere and from what i can tell has always had a strong track record with discoveries, statements and integrity.

we'll know soon enough.

now if that was a 3.5mm jack that would be sweet!

regards,
dolo

[wanderman]

Here's a short roundup of all the (shocking) news, pictures and video relating to the Treo 670...

http://blog.treonauts.com/2005/08/treo_670_runnin.html

Cheers, W.

[Fahsad]

here's something thats been getting me for awhile.. im thinking that the above models are HTC prototypes.. and while they will probably come out, im not sure if it will even be labeled as Treo.. isn't Treo as a model, owned by PalmOne, and designed by Handspring ( correct me if im wrong)? if so, will Palm change its name from PalmOS to PalmPC or something? how would palm even work?

[dutchtrumpet]

The only thing that makes me throw up a flag is the "Verizion" branding on it..........

I would suspect a "beta" to have no carrier marking, or maybe the new "palm" emblem instead. And no windows emblem behind the battery.

But that doesn't make it any less interesting.


keep in mind that the current treo doesn't have the old palmone logo (except for the unlocked one)

[puppyfriend]

I just hope that Palm sees fit to release an upgrade for my still new Treo 650. I love the hardware, hate the software. Windows Pocket OS's rule. I miss being able to play Playstation games ever since I ran out of room in my pocket for a Treo and an iPaq.

[dutchtrumpet]

here's something thats been getting me for awhile.. im thinking that the above models are HTC prototypes.. and while they will probably come out, im not sure if it will even be labeled as Treo.. isn't Treo as a model, owned by PalmOne, and designed by Handspring ( correct me if im wrong)? if so, will Palm change its name from PalmOS to PalmPC or something? how would palm even work?


I think you may be confused...PALM (formerly palmOne) is a hardware company, not a software company. The can change the os they use on their hardware.

Palmsource is the software company.

[deesugar]

Bye bye to all those neat little free Palm applications we could get

[Fahsad]

i get it.. so Palm will change.. and Palmsource will be out of a job i guess..

sad times..

[ash1348]

I would be very disappointment if this phone replaces the 650. It is damn ugly. My personal opinion is that this is only a prototype. Palm might have been testing the OS on this prototype for a while, but I bet they have not come up with their next design yet, or they have not finalized it yet. This design has been around for more than a year now, and it is hard to believe that they are going to use this old design as a predecessor to Treo.

[Fahsad]

if you wanna talk about looks, i dont thinks theres anyway a new treo could "out-look" a motorola Q since both phones seem essentially the same now except the moto Q looks infinitely better, is half the width, gets rid of the antenna and just looks awesome

but im just talking about LOOKS.. not with software and hardware integration ( had to add that in before the million replies about how the treo outperforms moto in performance) :D

[karenct]

I definitely hope there will also be a Cobalt OS version -- that would be sweet!

[t2gungho]

Wow! What a great find. Thanks for posting. I am a little bummed that Verizon may be releasing it first (especially because it seems like yesterday when they put the 650 out) but I am hoping Sprint won't be too far along.

BTW-1.3mp cam and evdo will be nice on the next upgrade as well

[gfunkmagic]

Eh... I don't know what to make of that... I mean it's probably good business for Palm to sell a WM Treo, but I certainly don't want one! :( I would personally much rather have a Cobalt OS Treo. I really hope Palm doesn't desert all the users that prefer that OS on the next treo...

[gfunkmagic]

Eh... I still want my Cobalt Treo personally....

[baby_arm]

I want one so bad!! Having owned a Palm V....then a IPAQ 2200....now a Treo 650 = I prefer the windows OS. I love my Treo and the all-in-one functoinality, but I like Windows. So what if MS monopolizes everything....their stuff works great (IMO)

[whatever7]

Well the same poster said there is a cobalt version, so there is still hope.

BELIEVE!

:)

It would be funny if Palm transfer its OS to windows and than compete with Dell and Taiwanese OEM on the cut throat PPC market; and then Palmsource changed its name and get brought out by Apple. Hey PalmOne brought BeOS before it split out PalmSource, it's possible.

[Rome]

The video looks real enough. My questions are:

- When will this phone be available?
- Could this unit in the video be only a prototype? The form factor was first seen back in March, and what took so long?
- Why Verizon? Was Verizon the only carrier who specifically wanted a WM Treo?

I am surprised that Palm decided to use the Treo sub-brand and the same 6 series number for their WM phones.

This is an exciting time for smartphones....can't wait.

[grndslm]

Wow....I leave my house for a few hours and then we get a friggin' movie of this WM Treo. I dunno what to believe....

Just that hell has frozen over soo many times this year. Watching the tech industry has usually been fun, but this rollercoaster is gettin' to be too much for me.

[MisterFuhrman]

I personally like the new hardware, but I sure don't want a PPC Treo. I sure hope the sam2579 guy is spot-on with the Cobalt news.

I really, really don't get the Verizon thing. Surely they would remain true to Sprint.

[t2gungho]

I really, really don't get the Verizon thing. Surely they would remain true to Sprint.I kind of thought the same thing (especially with the EVDO rollout and how verizon has been promoting it for most of the summer.)

[Kupe]

Hoax confirmed: http://www.pocketfactory.com/archives/2005/08/more_treo_700_h.php
LOL - you need better sources like this one. (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000840053340/) Also looks like the Treo General section here a TreoCentral finally picked it up later on today. Go look at the videos - they're pretty hard to fake. Work on your sources - Roc on Howard forums is always spot on!

. . . or you could remain in denial. :rolleyes:

[jw68]

HTC builds many Windows based phones. Palm probably commisioned them to build some prototypes for them for a feasability study. Its probably similar to Apple having OSX running on Intel PCs for the last 5 years, just in case the market turns on them. This way, if the market does turn, Palm wont be left holding the bag.

[newtonjack]

Looks real to me, go here to see 3 short videos

http://engadget.com/entry/1234000840053340/

[gfunkmagic]

HTC already builds the Treo 650 right now for Palm. It would make sense if they built this 670 monstrousity as well...

[trim81]

I hope it comes soon! Ready to buy one!

(Hopefully Marc and ChatterEmail will setup up and make CE work with Windows OS)

[tbone-Ike]

I highly doubt Palm will discontinue offering a Palm OS version as well, at least for quite a while. There are way too many developers and users with dollars and desires wrapped up in the Palm OS today for abandonment.

Just my 2 cents :)
-jeff

[dutchtrumpet]

third thread on this :)

[NRG]

except that the hardware is different and matches the other prototypes posted here earlier.

look at the buttons/keyboard.Bingo. And LOL nice avatar :), who ever is in that pic looks like Officer Hooks shooting a gun(Police Academy).

[HumP]

vid is defintely real heh no denying that

[ronbo2000]

<merged 4 thread about 670>

[NRG]

vid is defintely real heh no denying thatHoly Snikes!! It is Matt Foley Motivational Speaker!!! Love that guy.

[Indicator]

Better a skeptic than a sucker, I always say. ;) I got my link through Gizmodo originally - they have now retracted the story I read this morning: http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/index.php#come-on-at-least-put-a-little-effort-into-it-115934

Still, as noted above (and here I'll say it again, since it seems you missed it) I don't doubt such a device is being evaluated by Palm and HTC. I am still VERY skeptical that Verizon will be the first carrier to launch it.

FWIW - generally, my sources are quite reliable. But I'm sure my friends at Sprint, Verizon and Cingular wouldn't want me to talk about their device roadmaps since I'm still under NDA.

[DrDoom]

...I'll give you this. It LOOKS real. I just have a few complaints if it is.
1. COBALT!!! I certainly don't CARE if they put Windows on one, but give me the God Damn OS I signed up for!
2. VZW first? That makes absolutely no sense, but alright.
3. That is a butt ugly phone.

[baby_arm]

third thread on this :)

Time for Mods to add to the fleet and create a Category for Treo 670 threads.

[baby_arm]

who ever is in that pic looks like Officer Hooks shooting a gun(Police Academy).

...He's got a trumpet, a treo, and now a gun??

[Tekara]

You guys see the thread in the general chat? Actually have a cuople videos of the phone in action, good enough that everyone's up in arms now about what may be. Anyway, rumor goes that the next treo will have a choice of os, wm5 or palmOS cobalt.

From a business standpoint it doesn't seem to be too unreasonable a move. . . microsoft is moving faster than palmsource and microsoft is ubiquitous.

[msafi]

even though i just purchased my treo 650 with ~~$100 worth of software, it will all be listed on ebay once the Windows Mobile 5 GSM treo comes out. given, it supports my 2gb sd (or that might go with auction too!)

[pdario]

forgive my ignorance but am i to assume that Treo is completely moving away from a Palm OS based system? i've been using Pocket PC for the last 2 years and because I like the treo features i switched over to Treo/Palm about 2 months ago.

[msafi]

forgive my ignorance but am i to assume that Treo is completely moving away from a Palm OS based system? i've been using Pocket PC for the last 2 years and because I like the treo features i switched over to Treo/Palm about 2 months ago.
the same person that reported the windows treo also reported a new Palm OS version of the treo. so to answer your question, no, palm is not moving completely away from the palmOS.

[pdario]

why would they release two version of the Treo 670?

[smileyboy]

I wish it were not true. But, the fact this thing has been poping up all over the web is leading me to beleave it is true. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :( :( :( :(

[msafi]

why would they release two version of the Treo 670?
because some people might wanna buy a PalmOS Cobalt version and other people (like me) prefer Windows Mobile 5.0 version.

[roc a fella]

the videos and the pictures are completly real.

I just posted more at here (http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=695201&page=1&pp=30)

[roc a fella]

http://images9.fotki.com/v173/photos/2/219385/2504333/0804051322-vi.jpg
http://images10.fotki.com/v203/photos/2/219385/2504333/0805051512a-vi.jpg
http://images10.fotki.com/v203/photos/2/219385/2504333/0805051537-vi.jpg
http://images10.fotki.com/v203/photos/2/219385/2504333/dscn0306535-vi.jpg
http://images9.fotki.com/v172/photos/2/219385/2504333/Treo6706-vi.jpg
http://images10.fotki.com/v205/photos/2/219385/2504333/Treo6705-vi.jpg

[seru]

oh sh*t...

[trim81]

crrrrrrrrrazy

[trim81]

Roc, on the photo w/ the Win OS screen shot, can you take a better pic?

I cant make out the processor speed.

OH and also, as someone on HF suggested, try to get a side by side shot with a current Treo 650

TIA

[roc a fella]

Yeah that pic was taken in low light with my 8000.

I will get a beter pic for everyone.

[msafi]

roc a fella,

could you please tell whether the hardware has a 3.5mm headphone jack or 2.5?

and could you some how get a hold of the treo 650 and shoot us some really helpful side-by-side pics of the treos?

and i would really appreciate it if you tell us the USB speed. is it 2.0?

thank you,

msafi,

[ButtUglyJeff]

...3. That is a butt ugly phone.

Even for ButtUglyJeff?

[Kupe]

But I'm sure my friends at Sprint, Verizon and Cingular wouldn't want me to talk about their device roadmaps since I'm still under NDA.
Ah yes - the old "I'm-under-an-NDA" line. You need to re-read your "NDA" since it prohibits you from publicly speculating about the future plans of any product covered by said NDA. Then go turn yourself in to the NDA police for (incorrectly) publicly speculating on this future Verizon phone. Tell them you not only violated the NDA's prohibitions, but you're also ignorant of the products covered by the NDA you (allegedly) signed. :rolleyes: You're funny!
You guys see the thread in the general chat?
Also looks like the Treo General section here a TreoCentral finally picked it up later on today.
Ummm . . . Yes?

[meyerweb]

if you wanna talk about looks, i dont thinks theres anyway a new treo could "out-look" a motorola Q since both phones seem essentially the same now except the moto Q looks infinitely better, is half the width,

Half the width? What have you been smoking? Or do you mean half the thickness?

[meyerweb]

OK, I can't see ANY of the still photos. IE keeps telling me the page doesn't exist. Can anyone else still see them? Is the site down, or did Palm force their removal?

Someone posted earlier that the specs on this include 32KB of memory. 32KB on the Windoze OS is even more of a joke than on the Palm. You wouldn't be able to do any worthwhile multi-tasking. I believe the device is real. I'm not convinced that it's slated for production. It could easily be a prototype device that Palm / Verizon are testing, which may or may not be released in this or some other form, someday.

[rambo47]

You know what's gonna make this a success? Stability. Until Palm can make the Treo 650 WAY more stable folks are going to try other products. Why shouldn't Palm get in on the action? Remember, they're not just a software company now, they make hardware as well. They will test market the PPC Treo and make a decision based on numbers. Maybe the PPC and Palm versions will co-exist. I'm just happy to have more choices.

[DrDoom]

OK, I can't see ANY of the still photos. IE keeps telling me the page doesn't exist. Can anyone else still see them? Is the site down, or did Palm force their removal?

Someone posted earlier that the specs on this include 32KB of memory. 32KB on the Windoze OS is even more of a joke than on the Palm. You wouldn't be able to do any worthwhile multi-tasking. I believe the device is real. I'm not convinced that it's slated for production. It could easily be a prototype device that Palm / Verizon are testing, which may or may not be released in this or some other form, someday.

I have a tough time believing two things:
1. 32mbs on Windows is impossible. Anyone with ANY experience with the OS would stay well clear of that.
2. There is nothing on the web to support VZW switching places with Sprint and becoming the pre-dominate R&D partner for Palm. This would mena they were funding about 75% of the research for this new device AND released the 650 knowing full well that another device would soon be available for them ! This doesn't make financial sense, and believe me, that's the only thing VZW EVER thinks about. I suppose it's possible Palm has gotten to a position where they have more than one carrier testing devices for them, and intend to simultaneously, or something much more closer to that than last time, launch the device on two networks, but I doubt it.
My thoughts are that this is a real device, probably one that's used strictly for research, and is miles removed from any actual production line. The asthetics don't appear to bear out that this is a form factor they'd go with. I also imagine this unit truly does have only 32mbs if it's soul function in life is testing. You wouldn't need anymore than that. Got forbid you load a few third party apps on one during the "testing" phase to see what happens. That's what you have customers for, right Palm? ;)
My other gut reaction is that while this probably is a testing unit, I doubt very much that we'll see it anytime soon. Windows Mobile still doesn't handle five-way, one handed navigation very well, so that makes me leary. I'm sure I could be wrong though.
In closing, I hope all these rumors are true. I'm ready for a new Treo, no matter the OS. However, I will be much more convinced if the "Cobalt" unit surfaces with just as many pics to back it up.

[surur]

1) In WM5, ram is just ram. This device should work as well as any 64MB pocketpc (which splits the RAM between programs and storage).

2) WM 5 is focused on phone usage. One handed navigation has been added to the OS, just as in POS 5. Thats in part what the softkeys are about also.

Surur

[dstrauss]

Unfortunately, it makes sense (Windows Mobile that is). If they are going to run EVDO, multitasking would be much more important with a high speed connection, as well as teh rumors that WM5 scales to any video size. That may also explain the Cobalt rumors as well. However, I can't see the Windows crowd being happy with the square screen routine, even if it is higher res.

My real question to Palm is - where is the slider design so you can use a 480x320 screen like the LifeDrive?

[DrDoom]

Unfortunately, it makes sense (Windows Mobile that is). If they are going to run EVDO, multitasking would be much more important with a high speed connection, as well as teh rumors that WM5 scales to any video size. That may also explain the Cobalt rumors as well. However, I can't see the Windows crowd being happy with the square screen routine, even if it is higher res.

My real question to Palm is - where is the slider design so you can use a 480x320 screen like the LifeDrive?

1. Isn't Cobalt supposed to solve the multi-tasking issue? I'm not arguing, I believe there's a market for both, I just thought it had been rumored to multi-task.
2.A slider? Nah...too much hassle, even with the larger screen payoff. You ever tried a slider (PPC6600 or Samsung i730) one handed? Not for me!

[Antoine of MMM]

We've been saying this since late March at least that WM is at least being tested on Treos. That would be in Palm's best interest. The question is if whether they will do it or not. I think that on a CDMA network, WM actually makes more sense for Palm as they can capitalize on that branch of the market. GSM speaking, I'd see Cobalt as a better treat (if it works).

The question shouldnt be now if it is true, but of when it will be public. That being the case, I'd guess on late this year for an announcement (especially if any of the WM5 phones are announceed) and released early next year.

As for a Cobalt phone, I'd see that coming slightly before WM5 phone, only to keep the PalmOS side of Palm investors happy, probably making incentive to make PalmLinux a touch faster/better/now.

[Mtreosexual]

Looks like windows treo is a real thing.
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000050053387/

[dutchtrumpet]

wow


let's merge this with the other 5 threads that were merged :)

[jstpa]

... 2.A slider? Nah...too much hassle, even with the larger screen payoff. You ever tried a slider (PPC6600 or Samsung i730) one handed? Not for me!

I have an i730. It's slider is perfection. It is easier to use the slider one handed than any 5 way button - either the Treo's or the i730's. I don't think anybody should pay any attention to any criticism of the i730's slider unless the person making the criticism has spent at least a week using it.

The 6600 slider is a completely different animal. Not nearly in the same class for ease of use.

[Mtreosexual]

WTF..
Insertion jumped in within minutes of my post!
Well, i was just confirming .
Engadget is more reliable than howardforums .
Also the site has some video clips as well.
Sorry about being slightly redundant.

[MFizzel]

how could a slider be easier to use than a 5way?

[Indicator]

Wow, Kupe - you really take this stuff personally, don't you? Methinks you need to get out in the sun and have some fun and talk to some live people once in awhile.

[Insertion]

How many different threads do we need about this?

[Antoine of MMM]

Actually, restating the last thing I said:
Now that these pics are released, PalmSource will have to go into some kind of PR fail safe mode, as this only makes them look much, much worse. Regardless of whether Palm admitted to doing this or not, test shots from in the wild are always indicators of something bigger. And considering that now we are getting shots with defined buttons, rather than the non defined ones from the shots in March/April, means that a ton more testing is going on.

For Palm and MS, this would be really, really good.

[Insertion]

how could a slider be easier to use than a 5way?
Because he says so, dammit!

[jstpa]

how could a slider be easier to use than a 5way?

It just is.

[scottymomo]

Links are missing a g at the end. .jpg not .jp

[sam2579]

Because he says so, dammit!
Lolzz. Insertion your post makes my day. After all day listening crap from people about new treo, its always a breeze to find your few posts here and there :-).

Cya.

[gibby]

OMG,
This is Sooo Aswome,
I have been waiting sooo long for this phone, now I can do VPN Back into my company and I can use terminal server to connect to my servers and everthing will be alot smoother ...
Is there a release date?
4 months ? 1 year ?

[midmofan]

in the FWIW department. This treo in the pics and vids looks a lot like one of the prototype designs Plam showed at the roadshow and in the webinar last november. I specifically recall a 650 prototype photo with a squareish 5 way and home keys. don't remember if it was a photo or just a drawing. the Palm guy said they do everything from cardboard mockups to fully working devices to test form factor and function.

[DrDoom]

I don't think anybody should pay any attention to any criticism of the i730's slider unless the person making the criticism has spent at least a week using it.

The 6600 slider is a completely different animal. Not nearly in the same class for ease of use.

That just proves my point. If I have to use an i730 for a week, then what you're really saying is "I have to get used to it". Well, that means a compromise. You can pick up a Treo and know , within five seconds of doing so, that it will be easy to use one-handed. If its gonna take me a week to figure that out on an i730, then it means I'm compromising by "getting used" to the short comings of the device.

[Kupe]

I was thinking the same thing. Check the date/time this thread was started then close all the rest of those excess threads! ;)

[rambo47]

My preference would be for a Cobalt-based 650, but if the Windows version is more stable (definitely not a sure thing!) I would consider using that. For me, the Palm/Treo experience is all about the aftermarket apps. And bluetooth! :D

[Insertion]

I was thinking the same thing. Check the date/time this thread was started then close all the rest of those excess threads! ;)
I know. I saw yours yesterday when you first posted it. I'm surpised it hasn't been absorbed with the others yet.

[DrDoom]

My preference would be for a Cobalt-based 650, but if the Windows version is more stable (definitely not a sure thing!) I would consider using that. For me, the Palm/Treo experience is all about the aftermarket apps. And bluetooth! :D

And don't forget STICKING IT TO DA MAN!!!

[antmelnat]

Yeah that pic was taken in low light with my 8000.

I will get a beter pic for everyone.


Thanks for the great pics, vids and scoop Roc!

Can you include a pic of the back of the unit with the cover on. Would like to see how the camera looks and if the reset button has in fact moved to the outside of the case as sam2579's contact has suggested.

Thanks!!

[Insertion]

Thanks for the great pics, vids and scoop Roc!

Can you include a pic of the back of the unit with the cover on. Would like to see how the camera looks and if the reset button has in fact moved to the outside of the case as sam2579's contact has suggested.

Thanks!!The first pic shows the battery compartment, with the same reset hole.

[jstpa]

That just proves my point. If I have to use an i730 for a week, then what you're really saying is "I have to get used to it". Well, that means a compromise. You can pick up a Treo and know , within five seconds of doing so, that it will be easy to use one-handed. If its gonna take me a week to figure that out on an i730, then it means I'm compromising by "getting used" to the short comings of the device.

Nonsense.

First, I didn't mean that you have to get used to it. I meant you should spend some time with it to get over your prejudice. They say that true progress comes when the holders of the old views die. I agree with that, but I think that spending a few days with the device can work in this case - and it's a less harsh solution. On the other hand, if you have an open mind, you'll probably realize right away that the i730 slider is a good solution.

Second, I know more than a few people who futzed around pathetically for some time before they became adept with their Treos.

Third, there are lots of things about the i730 that take getting used to - but the slider isn't one of them.

[fkjr2]

so is the Treo and Palm os dead from here on in??

[Fabulas]

I've been a pocket pc user since 2000. I really hate palm os, but has adapted since I've owned a treo. It would be nice if both platforms were supported though.

[DrDoom]

Nonsense.

First, I didn't mean that you have to get used to it. I meant you should spend some time with it to get over your prejudice. They say that true progress comes when the holders of the old views die. I agree with that, but I think that spending a few days with the device can work in this case - and it's a less harsh solution. On the other hand, if you have an open mind, you'll probably realize right away that the i730 slider is a good solution.

Second, I know more than a few people who futzed around pathetically for some time before they became adept with their Treos.

Third, there are lots of things about the i730 that take getting used to - but the slider isn't one of them.

Far be it from me to argue (Insertion keep quiet!), but I have to disagree again. I sell both Sprint and Verizon, and I easily qualify for your "spend a few days with it" comment. The slider is a very good design for a slider but its not going to replace my Treo. As far as people futzing around, I'm sure it does happen, but you have to admit it's not with the inherent five way nav pad. Once you realize up and down is up and down, and side to side is link to link then you're done. And that takes all of five seconds.
In the end though? To each his own. I'm glad you're happy with your i730. I never could be.

[ronbo2000]

The big MS does not really need Palm.

It is already flooding the market with different clones of its product which are branded differently, typical big corporate strategy to stiffle competition.

Palm with limted resources (vs MS) have a tough time managing this unless they can identify a unique market where only Palm can satisfy the needs.

[Tekara]

I'm with insertion Kupe, you need to get out more. This thread is a merge of several others, I made my post in the thread that used to be in the other handheld forums, where your post wasn't.

I am going to wait and see if this ms treo actually hits the shelves first.

[jstpa]

Far be it from me to argue (Insertion keep quiet!), but I have to disagree again. I sell both Sprint and Verizon, and I easily qualify for your "spend a few days with it" comment. The slider is a very good design for a slider but its not going to replace my Treo. As far as people futzing around, I'm sure it does happen, but you have to admit it's not with the inherent five way nav pad. Once you realize up and down is up and down, and side to side is link to link then you're done. And that takes all of five seconds.
In the end though? To each his own. I'm glad you're happy with your i730. I never could be.

Agreed.

BTW, I prefer the design of the Treo, because of its superior hardware/software integration and ease of use. It has nothing to do with the slider. If I could get a Treo with the following three of the i730's features: (a) a nice big screen, (b) the i730's slider, and (c) EVDO - well, I'd be happy.

[archie]

Holy Cow!

Go away for a day or two and look what happens.

Right on schedule though I guess. Every August TreoCentral explodes with the annual Treo rumors.

[archie]

HAHAHA!!!

Just watched it again. Since when does Microsoft Mobile use Keyguard?

There are probably other tell tale signs I haven't noticed yet but these video are fake.

*Note: my source still says they will be using Windows Mobile though, but I am pretty sure it DOSN'T use keyguard.

BWAHhahahaha!

[archie]

I still say these videos are fake, BUT I just realized that my source was talking about running Flash on a Treo last weekend. I was thinking he was talking about using it as an OS or something (see my poll from Monday here (http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=92253)), but I think what he was saying is that he could run Flash on it since there is a Flash player for Windows devices.

[dutchtrumpet]

HAHAHA!!!

Just watched it again. Since when does Microsoft Mobile use Keyguard?

There are probably other tell tale signs I haven't noticed yet but these video are fake.

*Note: my source still says they will be using Windows Mobile though, but I am pretty sure it DOSN'T use keyguard.

BWAHhahahaha!


I am sure you have more info than me but couldn't palm customize the os to include their own keyguard? that keyguard was similar to the palm os treo one but not identical,

[dutchtrumpet]

I still say these videos are fake, BUT I just realized that my source was talking about running Flash on a Treo last weekend. I was thinking he was talking about using it as an OS or something (see my poll from Monday here (http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=92253)), but I think what he was saying is that he could run Flash on it since there is a Flash player for Windows devices.
flash player on palm treo 650 (http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=90079&highlight=flash)

[t2gungho]

As far as the whole 'fake' issue: I would not put it past the dedication and intelligence of some die hard pda/phone person to be able to fake video and photoshop pictures. I think pretty much anything is possible. That being said, I hope there is something new around the corner...it will keep everyone on their toes. ;-)

[archie]

I am sure you have more info than me but couldn't palm customize the os to include their own keyguard? that keyguard was similar to the palm os treo one but not identical,
But it is version 1.2.

[dutchtrumpet]

But it is version 1.2.
I'm sorry, I don't follow ya :confused:

[Felipe]

the only ppl who should be ****ting in their pants are other MS phone makers. the treo/palm will crush them all. they couldnt touch a palm treo, now the bar is riased even higher.

palmsource should be a little worried, but they should be in panic mode. i dont think palm is going to abondon them until palmsource shows they cant keep up.

btw, you dont think MS is happy about this? you think they wont hype the **** out of this? palm now using MS? please. i wouldnt put it passed them to up some money for it to happen or at least giving them access to the code to make it a true treo.

[archie]

flash player on palm treo 650 (http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=90079&highlight=flash)
I don't care about limited compatibility with games. I wan't true Flash capability... on the web, where everyone uses it and it provides truly useful information. But thanks.

[dutchtrumpet]

.but you're welcome ;-)

[mulcher]

I cannot believe this. EIther this is the greatest scam of all time, or we have all been sideswiped. I can't believe somebody else didn't post this yet (at least a search on Treo 670 didn't show up)....The device just looks way too polished to be a scam.

Here are full color pics of the "Treo 670" shown on Verizon...

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000050053387/

Here is fuzzy but definitely discernable video of the thing:

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000840053340/

[lazieboss]

how many times is this going to be posted lol

[ronbo2000]

<merged>

[t2gungho]

how many times is this going to be posted lolIt just goes to show that people a) do not search before they post and b) want to be the first person to put the info out there. :)

[trim81]

Roc, can you get a screen shot beneath the battery (where it shows the Treo model no)?

Block out the ESN of course...


TIA

[MAMAHNITA]

No thanks I'll keep the 650 and be happy!

[mobidutch]

No way these pics are fake. No way I will believe that some avid Photoshopper went through the trouble of creating a screen reflection that is not an exact copy of each other in each pic, yet clearly a reflection from the same environment. These pics are real, but that does not say anything about this being a unit being prepared for production.

[trim81]

YUP, I'm a believer...NOW ONLY IF THERE'S A GSM MODEL!!!


This photo did it for me.

http://images9.fotki.com/v173/photos/2/219385/2504333/0804051322-vi.jpg

[RicoM]

Dang it....I'm a VZW customer and was about to get my 650 in the next few weeks...now I'm going to have to wait a bit longer. I figured if the 670 was in fact coming out soon, it wouldn't get to VZW until 2nd QTR of 2006. Wonder if they'll be coming out with two new versions...a palm OS and the PPC OS (not really wanting to get the windows version). Oh well...been waiting for months for the 650, another few won't hurt me.

[midmofan]

has anybody discussed what it says in the lowe left of that photo: "DVT (development??) Sample" and "Not for...." what is that a "P" ? "Not for public...release? " can we get a photo without the thumb!! :)

[mobidutch]

Dang it....I'm a VZW customer and was about to get my 650 in the next few weeks...now I'm going to have to wait a bit longer. I figured if the 670 was in fact coming out soon, it wouldn't get to VZW until 2nd QTR of 2006. Wonder if they'll be coming out with two new versions...a palm OS and the PPC OS (not really wanting to get the windows version). Oh well...been waiting for months for the 650, another few won't hurt me.
Given that VZW just released the T650 and the Samsung i730, I would not count on this potential Treo being released by VZW anytime soon. I would be surprised if we see a next Treo release by VZW before Q2 2006.

[Blades]

www.engadget.com/search/?sourceid=Mozilla-search&q=treo+670

[ronbo2000]

If it helps Palm to survive ...
<merged>

[t2gungho]

If it helps Palm to survive ...
<merged>If only for your unselfish acts :D

[RicoM]

Given that VZW just released the T650 and the Samsung i730, I would not count on this potential Treo being released by VZW anytime soon. I would be surprised if we see a next Treo release by VZW before Q2 2006.

Having it released on VZW first would definately be a suprise, but with the photos of a VZW model running around....I dunno.

[DrDoom]

...but I still believe the VZW logo is just a logo. Maybe Palm branded each of their "test" devices with a different carriers logo, and didn't tell the people they gave them to about it. Theirfore, roc a fella THINKS he's safe from retribution because he covered up the serial #, but in actuality they'll be able to tell who he is from his carrier logo. Or at least which group of people he belongs to. Scary thought, ain't it? I suppose we'll know for sure if the "Cobalt" pics he promosid are ever released. If he gets 'em then no one at Palm's on to him (or his "friend", I can't remember where he said he got access from). If not then they've caught him and his access to their beta products has been cut off.
Or possibly his "friend" has decided "Hey *******! I'm gonna lose my job if you don't cut that **** out!"

[johnski1969]

I'm not saying I believe the rumors.. but would it make sense the test an evdo enabled phone w/verizon as they have a more established evdo network than sprint so far?.....

[midmofan]

keep in mind:

Palm said at the roadshows and webinars that they built full blown working test phones. that they went through several designs before the 650 which they didn't use. In fact this phone is similar to one of the prototypes they showed slides of.

at the roadshow they has cingular att and verizon braded phones even though sprint was going to be first and only for a while.

this phone says "development (dvt) sample." and "not for" something maybe resale maybe public release

Plam said they were exploring other OS platforms. have to build a phone to do that

so... although this phone exists we don't know if it the next treo or one of the many prototypes that don't see the light of day usually.

[midmofan]

oh yes, one more thing. given the reaction to the "ace" articles and photos last time around, I bet some folks are going nuts this weekend. I would not be surprised to see action monday morning to supress this

[gadgetluva]

Everyone seems to be basing their speculation on this new device because it has VZW branding, and as we all know, they are the latest to get the treos. But, think about this. The current 650 only has 1xrtt data...and vzw has been HEAVILY pushing their EVDO service, so they may believe that the Tro 650 isn't cutting it. They could just simply replace the T650 with this new device, touting that it is the "upgraded" version. They are really pushing out a bunch of new phones that are 3g data enabled-i don't see why they would be happy with a 1x treo. And, I would assume that people aren't buying the treo based on the fact that it isn't EVDO, but they have to pay the same price for data.

[SteveNYC]

With regard to the confusion of the Verizon branding and why it seems out of place... It could be the simple fact that Sprint has an exclusive sales agreement for the Palm Treo with the Palm OS and that a Palm Treo with a Microsoft OS is not part of that exclusive sales agreement.

Might be interesting to see what branding exists, if any, on the Cobalt OS Palm 670 that Roc a Fella has said he should have in the not-to-distant future.

Just a thought.....

[torifile]

Has verizon ever been first to market with modern phones? They got their first BT phone just last year and even that was crippled.

[Martin02]

Having it released on VZW first would definately be a suprise, but with the photos of a VZW model running around....I dunno.

I do not believe Verizon will be the first out with this device, a simple look at their track record with previous Treo models I think is pretty good evidence to support that. What I think is going on with the Verizon logo is 2 things:

1. I imagine Palm gives test units to all the wireless carriers they have partnerships with so that they can at least begin initial testing and someone simply managed to get ahold of the Verizon unit. It is very possible Sprint has one or many of these units as well and is actively testing it.

2. It was necessary to give Verizon a test unit. Its pretty much a foregone conclusion the next CDMA Treo will have EV-DO and since Verizon is the only one right now with a widespread EV-DO network that is up and running, they are the only carrier available to test the EV-DO capabilities of this Treo.

[ziphem]

I'm having trouble finding the specs for the new Treo...can someone provide me a link or repost them here? I also saw someone on Howardforums asked about a GSM model. Does anyone have any info on this as well?

Thanks!!

[Kupe]

Has verizon ever been first to market with modern phones? They got their first BT phone just last year and even that was crippled.
The Samsung i730, i700, and i600 were all originally Verizon phones. I had my first Bluetooth phone with Verizon back in 2001: the Moto 270C.

[Insertion]

The Samsung i730, i700, and i600 were all originally Verizon phones. I had my first Bluetooth phone with Verizon back in 2001: the Moto 270C.Well, to be fair you had to buy a kit (which I think was more than the MSRP of the phone) to do this. But you're correct, VZW did offer it for awhile.

[grndslm]

Theory One: These photos are real, get over it.

Theory Two: Verizon could possibly be the first to release this 670...they do have a larger EV-DO market, no? But it definitely goes against Verizon being the most conservative of all the carriers. The Sprint deal with Palm could be over PalmOS Treos...or it could be a timed deal that ended with the 650....who knows?

Theory Three: PalmSource will die and then Palm will die. Somebody mentioned that this is better for Palm, but I don't see it happening in the longrun. Palm has the momentum for now, but there is sooo much money to be spent by the WM phone companies! HTC doesn't even design PDAs, they recognized that the market is going to be smartphones...EOS! Other hardware companies will continue to spend money on designing a better phone than Palm....and eventually they will have the larger mass/momentum than Palm. I completely agree with another poster's comments in that the WM phone companies are cut throat!! If Palm subjects themselves to that type of torture, so be it. I guess I won't have my Linux based cell phone and I'll be stuck with buying some clamshell device from Sharp (I do hope they add a cellular radio to their clamshell Zauruses!!!).

[longterm]

My skepticism has just kicked in now that I've seen the Windows flag.

I still doubt that this is real; given the way that the video was done, I wonder if it was pieced together from a combination of altered images and original video... not at all out of the realm of possibility.

I shudder to think of trying to use a phone running with Windows. It would mean that I would never buy another SmartPhone if the only choice was Windoze CE.

I certainly hope Palm will do what I expect they will do, and continue their own OS. I seriously doubt that Palm would rely on M$ to write the operating system for their Treo line. For that reason, I don't believe the 670 is real.

But that's just my opinion...

[longterm]

Theory One: These photos are real, get over it.

Nah, I don't believe it. For some strange reason, people with nothing better to do seem to enjoy tricking people with fake photos. I'm sure there are those who also can do the same with video...

Theory Two: Verizon could possibly be the first to release this 670...

I suppose anything's possible, but I don't believe it. Why would Verizon be releasing this before the other carriers?[/QUOTE]

Theory Three: PalmSource will die and then Palm will die. Somebody mentioned that this is better for Palm, but I don't see it happening in the longrun. Palm has the momentum for now, but there is sooo much money to be spent by the WM phone companies! HTC doesn't even design PDAs, they recognized that the market is going to be smartphones...EOS! Other hardware companies will continue to spend money on designing a better phone than Palm....and eventually they will have the larger mass/momentum than Palm.

Why would Hawkins buy Palm back, only to let it die on the vine? No matter what anyone says, Palm is NOT going away. I've read this same sort of thing about Apple Computer for 15 years, and they're certainly not going away. I see the same thing going on here; there will be new OS advances, and perhaps Palm will move to a Linux- or Unix-based OS, but I seriously doubt they would go to Windows CE, for several reasons: 1) they'd have to pay licensing fees, and 2) they'd be relying on another company for the OS for their hardware, which means they'd be completely at the mercy of whatever Microsoft decided to do with Windows CE, and 3) it's just too buggy.

[pump142]

I dont understand why its so impossible for VZW to releaase something first. Sure they are always late for the "testing" but they are really pushing EV-DO and may see it as a chance to get on top before Sprints network comes online fully. Seems like a good idea to me.
As far as windows based..I'll wait for a palm unit

[gadgetluva]

I still doubt that this is real; given the way that the video was done, I wonder if it was pieced together from a combination of altered images and original video... not at all out of the realm of possibility.

I shudder to think of trying to use a phone running with Windows. It would mean that I would never buy another SmartPhone if the only choice was Windoze CE.

I certainly hope Palm will do what I expect they will do, and continue their own OS. I seriously doubt that Palm would rely on M$ to write the operating system for their Treo line. For that reason, I don't believe the 670 is real.

But that's just my opinion...

and how many windows powered smartphones have you actually owned or extensively used???

In my experience, windows is just as or a bit more stable than my 650.

[longterm]

and how many windows powered smartphones have you actually owned or extensively used???

In my experience, windows is just as or a bit more stable than my 650.

I've never bought a Windows-powered smartphone, nor will I... some may have had good luck with a Windows CE-powered unit, but judging from the mountain of bad press that Windows CE has gotten, I think I'll steer clear. I know it's gotten better over the years, but I don't think I'll take my chances with any handheld running Windows. Having written software for many years on PC machines running various iterations of Windows, I finally got tired of all the trouble and moved to a more stable platform.

I've been using Palms since the very first Palm Pilot; although I do recall some bugs over the years, I still have to say that my experience with Palm OS has been excellent. I refuse to believe that Jeff Hawkins is going to abandon Palm OS after all these years, to go with an OS that has had lots of problems over the years. Also, I don't think that Palm, Inc. would drop their own OS to go with one that has to be licensed, and over which they have no internal control.

As to not having bought a Windows-based handheld, all I can say is that I follow reviews fairly closely, and Palm OS has consistently gotten the nod over Windows CE, at least in the articles that I've read. I never bought an Edsel, either... :)

Bob

[DrDoom]

I wondered why I was suddenly seeing Hawkins name alongside Palm articles after so long an absense. In what sense has he "bought Palm back"? Did he purchase a majority share? Did he buy them out right? Is it him or a company he works for?

[longterm]

I wondered why I was suddenly seeing Hawkins name alongside Palm articles after so long an absense. In what sense has he "bought Palm back"? Did he purchase a majority share? Did he buy them out right? Is it him or a company he works for?

Jeff Hawkins is back at Palm as Chief Technology Officer; here's a quote from Palm's website:

"Jeff brings nearly 20 years of technical expertise to his role as Palm's chief technology officer. He co-founded Handspring with Donna Dubinsky in July of 1998 after five years together at Palm Computing. In 1994, Jeff invented the original PalmPilot products and founded Palm Computing. He is often credited as the designer who reinvented the handheld market.

Jeff currently holds nine patents for various handheld devices and features. His vision for handheld computing dates back to the 1980s, when as vice president of research at GRiD Systems Corporation he served as principal architect and designer for the GRiDPad and GRiD Convertible. Prior to that, he held key technical positions with Intel Corporation. "

I believe I read that he had bought a majority stake of Palm, Inc., but couldn't find any articles other than the press release at Palm's site.

Personally, I think this is a great omen for Palm's future...

Bob

[DrDoom]

The idea of Hawkins being back makes me believe our beloved Treo line will only get better! That's ALMOST as good as if Handspring were still making the damn things! Cool.

[Kupe]

Jeff Hawkins is back at Palm because Handspring was purchased by Palm (0.09 shares of Handspring for each share of Palm). Jeff didn't buy Palm.

Palm is likely not going away. Like Apple, they will serve a smaller and smaller portion of the market with a specialized, innovative product line.

Palm (until recently PalmOne) and PalmSource are two separate companies. Palm recently renewed it's PalmOS license greement with PalmSource (through 2009) subject to PalmSource meeting certain OS development goals.

The phone in question in this thread is stamped Verizon because it is being tested on the Verizon network. It doesn't mean Verizon will be the first to bring it to market.

Palm has stated in the past they are agnostic to the OS. Last November word got out they had linked up with Microsoft for a PPC license. (link (http://) )

[Kupe]

Well, to be fair you had to buy a kit (which I think was more than the MSRP of the phone) to do this. But you're correct, VZW did offer it for awhile.
That's a silly comment. The 1-year contract price of the phone was $170 - the kit was ~$100 ($89 was what I paid). MSRP of the phone would have been ~$350 - making it a $450 bluetooth phone at MSRP. Not cheap, but none of them were 4+ years ago. :eek:

[jstpa]

The real question about Hawkins is whether he's really putting his effort into Palm or whether he's just there because Palm wants his name and his noncompete keeps him from working in the same field anywhere else.

I'm not seeing much in the way of smartphone innovation from Palm since the acquisition. Just the 650, whoopdeedoo.

[wballz33]

if these pictures are real, I hope they can find a way to make the display take up the whole screen. That border looks terrible.

[Micael]

My eyes may be deceiving me, but aren't these images of the same device pictured around feb 05, on the same site? http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000030035535/ The brushed squared buttons, the camera, etc. Someone on the engadget site even commented (in feb) that the picture may be of a 650 prototype. I personally think its a hoax, atm.

[dutchtrumpet]

My eyes may be deceiving me, but aren't these images of the same device pictured around feb 05, on the same site? http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000030035535/ The brushed squared buttons, the camera, etc. Someone on the engadget site even commented (in feb) that the picture may be of a 650 prototype. I personally think its a hoax, atm.
actually those pics cam from TC

here (http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=596804&postcount=1)

[spiVeyx]

I seriously doubt that Palm would rely on M$ to write the operating system for their Treo line. For that reason, I don't believe the 670 is real. I have heard the same logic applied to Apple when rumors emerged that Apple may be considering a switch to Intel. Low-and-behold, some time later, Steve Jobs announced Apple's switch to Intel.

The truth is, PalmOS is way behind in terms of architecture and framework. The PalmOS API hasn't changed all that much in the past 5 years.

It doesn't surprise me that Palm wants to offer devices that use a current operating system, an operating system that is constantly making new innovations and has a foreseeable future.

[hariustrk]

I would switch to windows mobile on a treo in a heart beat.
I like the OS ALOT better, but the phones I've seen up to now have been too big(Samsung).

I left an iPaq behind for the treo because of the size and the decent combination of pda + phone with keyboard. The iPaq though had a far better contacts database, calander and media player built in. I'm also a fan of MS Reader. Plus I really miss the TODAY (at a glance) screen of Pocket PC.

[Micael]

"Powerful you have become, the dark side I sense in you."

[DrDoom]

I would switch to windows mobile on a treo in a heart beat.
I like the OS ALOT better, but the phones I've seen up to now have been too big(Samsung).

I left an iPaq behind for the treo because of the size and the decent combination of pda + phone with keyboard. The iPaq though had a far better contacts database, calander and media player built in. I'm also a fan of MS Reader. Plus I really miss the TODAY (at a glance) screen of Pocket PC.

...but all those things could be integrated into the next PalmOS if they'd just get off thier asses!!!

[DrDoom]

I would switch to windows mobile on a treo in a heart beat.
I like the OS ALOT better, but the phones I've seen up to now have been too big(Samsung).

I left an iPaq behind for the treo because of the size and the decent combination of pda + phone with keyboard. The iPaq though had a far better contacts database, calander and media player built in. I'm also a fan of MS Reader. Plus I really miss the TODAY (at a glance) screen of Pocket PC.

...except the MS Reader, I guess. :confused:

[DrDoom]

I dont understand why its so impossible for VZW to releaase something first. Sure they are always late for the "testing" but they are really pushing EV-DO and may see it as a chance to get on top before Sprints network comes online fully. Seems like a good idea to me.
As far as windows based..I'll wait for a palm unit

Captain Caveman. Color me impressed. :D

[chillig35]

since some of the pics have already been posted almost 6 months ago, is it possible that what we are all seeing are just abandoned prototypes of the 650??? that these pics and videos are ancient history?

that might explain a lot of things:
> why we are seeing a VZW brand for a next gen prototype
> why the form factor (including the antenna) hasn't changed and looks clunkier if anything
> perhaps Palm & VZW were playing around with WMS before they decided to stick with PalmOS
> VZW decided to bring in i730 with WMS instead
> in spite of all these "leaks", Palm hasn't sued or tried to shut down TC!!!

[illustreous]

I believe those pictures are fake, esp.. among other things, that close up of the screen which shows the Verizon logo. The logo doesn't even "bend" with the curve of the earpiece; it just stays straight.

[gadgetluva]

I've never bought a Windows-powered smartphone, nor will I... some may have had good luck with a Windows CE-powered unit, but judging from the mountain of bad press that Windows CE has gotten, I think I'll steer clear. I know it's gotten better over the years, but I don't think I'll take my chances with any handheld running Windows. Having written software for many years on PC machines running various iterations of Windows, I finally got tired of all the trouble and moved to a more stable platform.

I've been using Palms since the very first Palm Pilot; although I do recall some bugs over the years, I still have to say that my experience with Palm OS has been excellent. I refuse to believe that Jeff Hawkins is going to abandon Palm OS after all these years, to go with an OS that has had lots of problems over the years. Also, I don't think that Palm, Inc. would drop their own OS to go with one that has to be licensed, and over which they have no internal control.

As to not having bought a Windows-based handheld, all I can say is that I follow reviews fairly closely, and Palm OS has consistently gotten the nod over Windows CE, at least in the articles that I've read. I never bought an Edsel, either... :)

Bob
I honestly do not understand how you can be so critical of an OS that you've never really used before. But, if palm works for you, then by all means, use palm. But then again, it isn't Microsoft that hasn't released major updats for their OSes in over 3 years...

The thing is, dont be so quick to judge something that you've only heard about. I'm willing to bet that if PalmSource doesn't do something with their os, including adding true multitasking capabilities, then they are doomed to fail and slip away in the marketplace until they are obsolete.

[WildFireX]

Actually, if somebody wanted to fake this, it wouldn't be that difficult. Get a movie of a Windows mobile device with the Start Menu doing its thing and play it full screen on a production-level Treo 650 (which it was suggested a while back that this model could have been a development/concept model). Not that I'm a conspiracy theorist, but it wouldn't be that hard to simulate WM running on a Treo by playing a full-screen video back of another smart-phone on the Treo itself, with sound and everything. Considering all the tools there are to capture the screen on a smartphone (Palm and WM), this shouldn't be too difficult.

I don't know. Until I hear from the horse's mouth, I won't be sure, but my plan is to stick with the Palm brand, and Palm would lose me as a Treo customer if they did this.

But, of course, take this with the proverbial particle of Sodium Chloride.

[midmofan]

it was suggested a while back that this model could have been a development/concept model) Its not a suggestion actually, the phone in the photos and vids SAYS its a development model inside the battery compartment.

Now there are at least four possibilities:

1. This is THE development model of a new Treo which will sell "soon."
2. This is one of the many development models that go nowhere.
3. This is an old 650 development model just being used to test Windows.
4. This is an old development model that has a fake windows vid on it.

Pays your money, takes your choice

[KRamsauer]

Not that I'm a conspiracy theorist, but it wouldn't be that hard to simulate WM running on a Treo by playing a full-screen video back of another smart-phone on the Treo itself, with sound and everything. Considering all the tools there are to capture the screen on a smartphone (Palm and WM), this shouldn't be too difficult.

But there is typically a small white border when playing back movies on the treo. There isn't on this WM treo. But then again there is a big black border.... Sharpie anyone?

[longterm]

I honestly do not understand how you can be so critical of an OS that you've never really used before. But, if palm works for you, then by all means, use palm. But then again, it isn't Microsoft that hasn't released major updats for their OSes in over 3 years...

That's not something Microsoft does because they're improving; they spend 99% of their effort patching patches over patches over patches...
The thing is, dont be so quick to judge something that you've only heard about.

But that's how I decide what to buy: I read reviews for cars, for electronic devices. I don't buy and try them all first... that wouldn't make much sense, now would it... when I was shopping for a car, I consulted reputable car reviews; when I'm deciding on a movie to see, I read reviews online--not just one, either. When I've bought successive PDAs, I've relied on all the reviews I've read about the Palm and the others out there... I've also relied on years of experience and frustration with Microsoft operating systems. I'm sure WinCE is okay, I just don't choose to buy a PDA that uses it, and won't in the future...

I trust the preponderance of reviews... which is one of the reasons I've never considered a WinCE device. From all the articles I've read over the years, the PalmOS GUI is simply easier to use. But then, that's just my opinion...

[IamVincent]

Saw this artical and don't know what to think.... Follow the link and it leads to some rough video and pics....

http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=14794

[Insertion]

Saw this artical and don't know what to think.... Follow the link and it leads to some rough video and pics....

http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=14794

Please refer to my signature. Thank you.

[ronbo2000]

<merged>

[BARYE]

the 670 was more intensely discussed than almost any other topic during the more than 2 1/2 hours of the Engadget Q/A.

One of the editor/writers was enthusiastically looking forward to a WM5 Treo. Both speculated that the next Treo would most likely be in 2 versions, with 2 different OSes.

one of the 650s that they carried was running a betatest of the new sprint mobiTV. He liked it, though it seems dumb to me to not just include a TV tuner on board if it was a tv that was wanted.

They actually spoke with Roc-a-Fella to confirm his story prior to publishing that 670 report.

there was free beer, but few free girls... :(

[t2gungho]

Thanks for the report...cool that they are talking to Roc (free beer?) I wish they had this thing back around the 20th while I was there!

[BARYE]

Thanks for the report...cool that they are talking to Roc (free beer?) I wish they had this thing back around the 20th while I was there!

it was supposed to be one Bud each -- though I'm sure lots of folks snagged an extra or two.

It was a pretty prototypical geeky crowd -- LOTS of 650's on hips -- and too many pasty over white over weight bodies.

The Engadgets guys are Tres cool -- laid back, unpretentious, hard working, ambitious, and young.

it really is produced out of his 6th story manhattan walk up apartment (3 blks from my old crib).

Though they're a "new journalism" blog, they have completely adopted a NY Times level of ethics -- they will not accept gadgets gifts, perks, or free junkets. Any gizmo sent to them for review is either returned or given away.

Only 4 of them put out Engadget -- including the founder dude.

Roc offered to sell them his 670 !!! but they declined. (who is that guy ???) :eek:

[Antoine of MMM]

Barye;
The engadget gathering was kool, but I resent that prototypical geek look - I am mos def a sterotype breaker 8^) And with not having a Treo, I had to be one of the non BB/non Sidekick crowd to have a little fun :)

If you remember the Q/A session, they all but assured that it was coming a few times before the first Treo question...will make for an interesting listen if they publish that Q/A session.

Yea, I was in the first mention about him saying that Roc would sell him the 670, thats insane, but makes for an interesting rumor all the more.

Overall, we can now say that its coming, probably in fall, and most probably on VZW sooner rather than later (though my sources tell me that the other carriers are in testing as well).

[BARYE]

Barye;
The engadget gathering was kool, but I resent that prototypical geek look - I am mos def a sterotype breaker 8^) And with not having a Treo, I had to be one of the non BB/non Sidekick crowd to have a little fun :)

If you remember the Q/A session, they all but assured that it was coming a few times before the first Treo question...will make for an interesting listen if they publish that Q/A session.

Yea, I was in the first mention about him saying that Roc would sell him the 670, thats insane, but makes for an interesting rumor all the more.

Overall, we can now say that its coming, probably in fall, and most probably on VZW sooner rather than later (though my sources tell me that the other carriers are in testing as well).



so there were other TCers there !! :cool:

were you amongst the small group who was on stage talking with Peter ??

(BTW -- that first Treo question came from me ... ) :o

[Antoine of MMM]

Look at the pic on Engadget's site, I am the one in the front row holding the camera phone.

[BARYE]

Kewl !

I was the fool attired in the red bicycle shorts and OS/2 Warp T-shirt :D

[JHromadka]

Making this thread sticky to hopefully deter the new threads.

[gharrod]

I have said it before and I will say it again. PalmOne split into two because they saw the future and it is in hardware and not in the OS. They know they have a winner in the Treo FORM-FACTOR. It was not because the worth of the 2 companies is more seperate then it was together. That never makes economic sense. It is only for one of two reasons. Either there is a philosophical difference or one company is pulling all the weight. We buy the Treo because of how it works, how it feels and the size. How can we possibly be critical of them launching a MS OS based Treo. I am sure they will for the time being offer a PalmSource OS based Treo also for the Palm crowd. I thought I read the other day that Linux was outselling MS on smartphones and that PalmOS was a distant player. Why wouldn't Palm want to capitalize on the Treo form factor and utilize HTC's expertice in the MS market? Face it, money talks and if Palm has a chance to sell 4 or 5 times the Treos they used to then they have a responsibility to their shareholders to do so. Also, what happens if Sprint, VZW and/or Cingular tells them without a MS based Smartphone they are through because they are tired of the support problems?

[storas]

There did u get tomtom from? I am looking for 1 now. Cant find it.


The video is real.

I would be very disappointed if Palm stop using PalmOS all together. Wouldn't all those people who have brought Palm software get screwed over? What about the devcelopers?

I just brought the TomTom kit I don't know if my license will work on a PPC phone.

If they make a PPC version for Verizon and a Cobalt version for Sprint than I don't care.

[JackNaylorPE]

There's some hints O Palm's direction to be found in the interview refernced here:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/09/hawkins_lifedrive_poser/

[axiomjunglist]

f*ck MS and their global domination scheme. I've never enjoyed using windows, and I'll never buy a device with their OS on it...period. I'm sure Palm is aware of users like me and they'll be quick to put out a model with Palm OS...I have no fears about that.

I will, however, be quite irritated if the new WM Treo 670 sits on shelves for a year before the Palm OS version strolls along...

[Micael]

How would a WM Palm Anydevice make any sense? Forget the pro's and cons of the different OS's. Just supporting WM would require a huge investment on the part of Palm. This really doesn't wash, guys. Not to mention brand dilution, strategic partnership impacts.... tell me this isn't a good idea, please?

[efudd]

some of it might be a resonse to the razzberry doodah. Maybe palm is worried motorolla is going to take a chunck of the pie?

[RobM]

f*ck MS and their global domination scheme. I've never enjoyed using windows, and I'll never buy a device with their OS on it...period. I'm sure Palm is aware of users like me and they'll be quick to put out a model with Palm OS...I have no fears about that.

I will, however, be quite irritated if the new WM Treo 670 sits on shelves for a year before the Palm OS version strolls along...

Actually, Palm is hoping for more like you...true Palm fan...but because of you, they have no real urgency to release anything to compete because they know that you will wait for whatever they produce. On the other hand, if you are on the ropes regarding technology, price point, etc and a Windows device may sway you, that would drive palm harder to keep your business.

rob

[dstrack]

PalmOne split into separate Hardware and Software companies for this precise reason. I welcome a new OS on the Treo. So far I've been happy with the Palm OS, but I welcome WM... Definitely on board!

Not to stir the pot, but so many people are so against MSFT - on one hand I can see why - but on the other we would not be where we are today as far as technological proliferation if MSFT didn't exist (or some dominant standard). One of the biggest stunts to innovation is a lack of standards (the other being regulation) and MSFT has provided a standard platform on which to build - of course we can go into the aggressive/monopolistic biz practices but its probably a waste of time... my point is just the fact that they provide a standard.

Sure - in a way so does the PALM OS... but its not ubiquitous like Windows and it's counterparts (PocketPC, WinMobile, etc...)... quite honestly - one small thing that I look forward to on the Windows version is using ActiveSync as opposed to HotSync. I love being able to have the system continuously monitor changes and sync when necessary as opposed to going thru the whole Hotsync button clicking, etc... - I know you can do network syncing, etc... but I am quite fond of ActiveSync (used many generations of PocketPCs and Palms... always liked it better than HotSync)... I also look forward to REAL Outlook synchronization as opposed to having to rely on third party products like "Beyond Contacts" (which is a great application if you're reliant upon Outlook)...

[hariustrk]

That's not something Microsoft does because they're improving; they spend 99% of their effort patching patches over patches over patches...


But that's how I decide what to buy: I read reviews for cars, for electronic devices. I don't buy and try them all first... that wouldn't make much sense, now would it... when I was shopping for a car, I consulted reputable car reviews; when I'm deciding on a movie to see, I read reviews online--not just one, either. When I've bought successive PDAs, I've relied on all the reviews I've read about the Palm and the others out there... I've also relied on years of experience and frustration with Microsoft operating systems. I'm sure WinCE is okay, I just don't choose to buy a PDA that uses it, and won't in the future...

I trust the preponderance of reviews... which is one of the reasons I've never considered a WinCE device. From all the articles I've read over the years, the PalmOS GUI is simply easier to use. But then, that's just my opinion...

Not for nothing but the Treo has some serious stablity issues and we all know it. So calling Windows Mobile crap is like the pot calling the kettle black. Palm is no better then MS when it comes to this stuff. And atleast MS is responsive.

How long did you wait for the NV memory fix? And how many new issues came up from it? I for one am tired of my Treo shutting off randomly unless I spend an additional $17 for Profile Care to fix thier fix.

I like my treo but it ain't all roses and candy. There is a labor to this love.

[dstrack]

Well Said, hariustrk... well said...

[axiomjunglist]

Any OS is going to have shortcomings, but I believe in choice. I choose not to use WM, and refuse to use an OS that has to be compiled, or is not natively supported. If I wanted WM, I'd use another device out of the hundreds available on the market. I chose Palm because of the OS. If Palm wants to ditch that idea and become another mindless device for office drones, go for it. I sure as hell won't be behind it. Fact is though, I just don't think they have the guts to drop Palm OS completely...so you guys who want WM win, and as long as we get our version too we'll be happy.

[dstrack]

I hear ya on that... But in my opinion the Treo has won because of Form Factor... NOT because of the Palm OS... I'll be buying the next version no matter what OS is on it...

[msafi]

WM5 is intuitive and natural to all windows users. i used Windows CE 3.0 for a long time on a handheld pc that was practically a laptop replacement for me. and i loved it. it's easy to store and navigate files. and it support external removable media naturally.

palm os original structure and built-in apps suck. many 3rd party apps however are good.

[j$hort]

Just saw this on Howard forums and watched video. It looks authentic to me...and I guess pretty cool, but I can't think of any reason how the Treo would benefit from this. Yes the potential of MS mobile or Linux taking over the world is a concern... is this supposed to appeal to the diehard MS fans?
Seems to me Treo won the battle of the mobile OS war a while back, I would have thought about this migration a while back when rich multimedia, screen resolution, etc were not available on the Palm OS devices. I'll as the obvious, whats wrong the palm OS?

[Micael]

Palm Source's announcement today kind of kills the rumour, imho.

[jmill72x]

Palm Source's announcement today kind of kills the rumour, imho.
Since they are different companies (and have been for a while), I don't see why one has anything to do with the other.

Palm is free to put whatever OS in the next Treo that they want and can make work, whether it's WM2005, Garnet, Cobalt, or some Palm/Linux flavor.

[mikec]

I wasn't gonna say, it, but I told ya so.

[Fahsad]

Since they are different companies (and have been for a while), I don't see why one has anything to do with the other.

Palm is free to put whatever OS in the next Treo that they want and can make work, whether it's WM2005, Garnet, Cobalt, or some Palm/Linux flavor.

True, but logically and business wise, it makes sense to assume that their future models will lean towards some palm/linux concoction. Why would Palm go through the trouble of teaming up with MontaVista to develop a new OS and then go with WM2005? Thats just money down the drain. On top of that, if as some say, they were to make TWO different versions with different OS's on it, it would just be competition amongst themselves. Treonauts are a very specific breed, and to divide the competition amongst them is just bad business.. they'd just end up with a lot of leftover models, whether it be the Linux version of the Windows version..

im not saying that i know for sure what OS will be on the next model.. but its just common sense to assume that they'll do SOMETHING with their new palm/linux OS..

[dutchtrumpet]

again...palm is not palmsource. :brick:

palmsource is teaming with MV...not palm.

they are different companies.

[Fahsad]

:crazy: i really gotta remember that..

[efudd]

also plam linux doesnt really mean anything since plamsource has been sitting on a new OS for like over a year now that no one wants to be bothered with.

[axiomjunglist]

I hear ya on that... But in my opinion the Treo has won because of Form Factor... NOT because of the Palm OS... I'll be buying the next version no matter what OS is on it...

In MY opinion, I know a lot of people would have avoided the Treo had it come out originally with some form of MS OS, myself included. I purchased the Treo because I liked the phone/pda combo, but the OS is what sealed the deal. Had it come with MS preloaded I would have stuck with my Nokia (which still has better reception imho), iPod (20GB vs 2GB SD?), and Tungsten E, and not sold all three to get the best of all worlds.

[jw68]

Whose to say that the new WM5 and Colbalt version of the Treo will run on different hardware. Isn't it possible to create a general purpose device that is capable of running multiple platforms. This way they standardize on the hardware and customize the OS, much like in todays PC world where you can boot into Windows or any distro of Linux. If they can make a version of Linux run on an iPod, they can do anything :)

[Kupe]

Isn't it possible to create a general purpose device that is capable of running multiple platforms.
Super idea. That way the wireless providers can charge a triple premium for bringing you not 1, but 3 phones for the price of . . . nearly three! Don't think they wouldn't try. :(

[dstrack]

In MY opinion, I know a lot of people would have avoided the Treo had it come out originally with some form of MS OS, myself included. I purchased the Treo because I liked the phone/pda combo, but the OS is what sealed the deal. Had it come with MS preloaded I would have stuck with my Nokia (which still has better reception imho), iPod (20GB vs 2GB SD?), and Tungsten E, and not sold all three to get the best of all worlds.


I hear ya... The MS OS is a definite deal breaker for you... I understand where you're coming from - Just out of curiosity (and of course you're entitled to your opinion) but have you ever used the Win Mobile platform or any of the PocketPC/CE iterations? I'm sincerely hoping they got it right this time, but the reason I love the Treo besides the physical form factor is the ability to basically navigate the OS with one hand... I have a hard time imagining doing that on a Win OS - Fingers crossed they do it right...

[hariustrk]

Whose to say that the new WM5 and Colbalt version of the Treo will run on different hardware. Isn't it possible to create a general purpose device that is capable of running multiple platforms. This way they standardize on the hardware and customize the OS, much like in todays PC world where you can boot into Windows or any distro of Linux. If they can make a version of Linux run on an iPod, they can do anything :)

It's not that simple. Binaries contain commands for the processor and calls based on the arcitecture and I don't think the two platforms are written for the same processor/arcitecture.

They could port one to the other but the 3rd party apps wouldn't work with out an emulator, which would slow them down big time.

Still it's not unthiknable that Palm would work up a WM compatible treo and a PalmOS compatible Treo. I think it would be in thier best intersts to do so. Let the 2 software companys battle it out and whomever wins, Palm is still on top with one of the best pieces of Hardware on the market. The Treo really is the best peice of hardware out there right now for a Phone/PDA combo OS to run on.

I have a hard time imagining doing that on a Win OS
As of the last iteration of Pocket PC I used(on a iPaq) it was very doable. That was Pocket PC 2002 I believe.

[jmill72x]

again...palm is not palmsource. :brick:

palmsource is teaming with MV...not palm.

they are different companies.
I'm going to have to change my sig to an Insertion-like:

"Please don't post and confuse Palm and PalmOne...they are now and have been for a while separate companies".

:brick:

[axiomjunglist]

I hear ya... The MS OS is a definite deal breaker for you... I understand where you're coming from - Just out of curiosity (and of course you're entitled to your opinion) but have you ever used the Win Mobile platform or any of the PocketPC/CE iterations? I'm sincerely hoping they got it right this time, but the reason I love the Treo besides the physical form factor is the ability to basically navigate the OS with one hand... I have a hard time imagining doing that on a Win OS - Fingers crossed they do it right...

I played with a friends Dell Axim, and another's iPAQ, both running CE, and it seemed kludgey. I guess I am just not a big fan of the way MS orients the software and system. Not to mention I don't use Windows at home either, and never been a fan of their OS's personally. It's nothing against MS, if people like and and want it, that's fine. Just give me another choice, and make it easy to use.

Now that PalmSource is headed towards developing a linux based OS with MonteVista, I look forward to using it, and hope that they have it ready in time for the 670's release in an alternate model.

[KRamsauer]

I'm going to have to change my sig to an Insertion-like:

"Please don't post and confuse Palm and PalmOne...they are now and have been for a while separate companies".

:brick:
Wait. I thought Palm and PalmOne are the same company? It's Palm and PalmSource that are different.

[mikec]

In MY opinion, I know a lot of people would have avoided the Treo had it come out originally with some form of MS OS, myself included. I purchased the Treo because I liked the phone/pda combo, but the OS is what sealed the deal. Had it come with MS preloaded I would have stuck with my Nokia (which still has better reception imho), iPod (20GB vs 2GB SD?), and Tungsten E, and not sold all three to get the best of all worlds.

Well, IMHO, you are in a minority; for many people MS OS is just fine.

Palm 5.x is a unstable as a 4 year old on Pixie Stixs and Mountain Dew.

Ds was right - the Treo form factor is the draw, not the OS.

[mikec]

Wait. I thought Palm and PalmOne are the same company? It's Palm and PalmSource that are different.


Let's clear up the confusion:

PalmOne - puts out the hardware

Palm(Source) - puts of the OS that crashes said hardware.

;)

[PabloTX]

Well, IMHO, you are in a minority; for many people MS OS is just fine.

Palm 5.x is a unstable as a 4 year old on Pixie Stixs and Mountain Dew.

Ds was right - the Treo form factor is the draw, not the OS.

From my observations, it's as much the OS as the form factor.

People genera