No there won't be any more new OS for the Treo, just Palm and Windows

[darnell]

Just announced in response to a question at the conference. Sorry folks who wanted more, but they say it's just too much work.

[dstrauss]

Man, this hurts, because it's even faster than I thought. I told everybody M$oft would take care of the OS for Palm from now on,a nd if anyone believes PalmSource will do the same inside job for Palm (what - will Palm develop hardware for whatever Palmsource throws out there - give me a break).

Adios Palm OS for Treo.

[TheBigBadWolf]

No symbian or Linux either...so what do we do with our 650's now? I know the carriers will still continue to carry the 650 but for how long? I mean everything that we do for the 650 will be obsolete won't it? Forget it then...I'm getting rid of my 650's. Theres no point.

[Perry Holden]

Just announced in response to a question at the conference. Sorry folks who wanted more, but they say it's just too much work.

Does this mean there will not be a backwards compatible Palm/Linux OS? Then why did Palm partner with that Linux software specialist firm?

Let's not rush to judgement. . . .

[TheBigBadWolf]

The guy from Palm expressed no interest in Linux or Symbian. He specifically answered he's not interested.

Okay every body, don't panic...DoNt PAnic...DON'T PANIC!!! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!

Sorry about that guys got a little carried away there...

[shadowmite]

He also specifically said if they can't make it work with just Windows mobile, then they deserve what they get. Palm OS is not being pursued.

[darnell]

I was thinking Palm OS was still a possibility. I was working and listening at the same time and missing some details.. I guess Palm OS really is dead then.

I don't think that's a good thing. I don't think most T650 owners will be getting a Windows based Treo for whatever reason although I may at some point. Without a Palm OS version of a new Treo I don't see PALM the company doing well in the short term future although they will pick up in time. I'm sure MS will keep them afloat till they are doing well with sales.

No wonder Gates was there. He was there to say yes the Palm OS is dead, I'm just here to inspect the remains!!!

[t2gungho]

I wonder how this bodes for the zire and other pda lines? Will they move that to wm or keep it completely seperate from the treo/smartphone line?

[jjd]

I was thinking Palm OS was still a possibility. I was working and listening at the same time and missing some details.. I guess Palm OS really is dead then.

I don't think that's a good thing.

I don't think so either. I want a phone with an OS I can choose to add new applications to. I also don't want Windows.

If Palm have killed the PalmOS, then if I eventually did have to buy a WindowsMobile device, I'd buy it from anybody EXCEPT Palm. No way am I rewarding them for reducing the available OS choices.

[zvandiver]

I hope this doesn't mean the end of PalmOS smartphones or PDA's. I use Windows only for the very few tasks I can't do with Linux. I will have to forgo PDA's completely if the only ones I can get are WinMobile.

[HobbesIsReal]

I have switched to WM because at the moment, with the lack of upgrades from Palm Source, it has surpassed the Palm OS in several key areas......but that does not mean that I was looking forward to colbalt.

Even if someone is a diehard, will never use anything but WM...it is invaluable to have competition forcing better features, easier usability, etc... to keep old customers and attract new ones.

If Palm OS is dead, then MS has virtually no competition which greatly reduces the incentive to innovate at a faster pace with better features.

[shadowmite]

Cobalt has been dead for a long time now, the problem is basically, palm was designed as a non multi-tasking event driven system. How do you make a event driven system multitask? You create a emulated layer to run additional events and swap them out on the stack. The more you do this, the slower it gets. There is just no way to make palm multitasking without completely rebuilding it.

As such, any palm updates will be based on garnet. I stongly believe Access is going to take the palm os and make a bunch of low end phones without touchscreen that run palm os. That's what they are good at, and palm is perfectly suited to it.

Palm's embracing microsoft is nothing other than a alliance to defeat Blackberry (RIM). Together, they hope to accomplish this. But I'll admit, this is borg habits, microsoft just aquired a new partner.

Either way, I love my ppc-6700 and WM05, it truely is great and I've waited for years for ppc phones to achieve this size.

[Insertion]

Either way, I love my ppc-6700 and WM05, it truely is great and I've waited for years for ppc phones to achieve this size.So, you're saying they've come a long way since the 'Vox Thera? :thumbsup:

[cruelpupet]

Apparently there will be a new PALM OS Treo

This announcement does not mean the end of Palm OS; Bush did go on record to say that "Yes, we will havefuture Treo products on Palm OS". The new features in Windows Mobile that were shown off today are only a few of the changes Palm has made, according to both Bush, "You haven't seen anything yet... There is a lot of functionality in Windows Mobile - that other people hven't quiet unlocked. It was key to our strategy, looked at what others are doing, and saw lots of potential."

[shadowmite]

Apparently there will be a new PALM OS Treo

Don't hold your breath... they also promised cobalt...

That's not to say it's not gonna happen, but I think palmos is going to be back tracked to cheaper phones in a attempt to win more customers. I think it's quite possible the 650 is the top of the line for palm os converged devices.

[Larrydann]

If MSFT does to Palm what they did to Apple in the 80"s we maybe OK. I know several MSFT pda users who had horror stories (worse than 600 users) about not syncing, losing data etc. It will be two-three years in my opinion, before MSFT gets it right. The 650 OS is not perfect but they spend a ton of time getting it done right for most users like myself who is not a poweruser.

[darnell]

Palm does Windows (http://news.zdnet.com/Palm+does+Windows/2100-1040_22-5882674.html)


...
Colligan said Palm would not extend its hardware platform to other smart-phone operating systems such as Linux or Symbian.

"We are going to focus on what we have on the table," he said. "This is for customers who want that familiar Windows user experience. Certainly for Palm, we will reach into many more companies with these devices."

Palm did not discuss how it will use the Palm OS in conjunction with the new hardware it showed off Monday. But the company has said it plans to continue developing products, including smart phones, based on the Palm OS.

Palm for some time had been entertaining the notion of a Windows-based device to woo corporate customers who are accustomed to Microsoft products and have been reluctant to buy Palm OS-based gadgets.

"This is a major win for Microsoft if you realize that the company will power two very powerful smart phones--the Motorola Q and the Palm Treo," Jupiter Research analyst Michael Gartenberg said. "It is also a good thing for corporate IT departments, which can now leverage off of a common development platform while letting their users pick the handset that is right for them."

Palm, which once had the vast majority of the handheld market, has seen its share drop in recent years. Last November, Microsoft for the first time surpassed Palm in the number of handhelds shipped using its operating system, according to Gartner. Palm said it shipped 470,000 Treo units last quarter but it still runs behind the BlackBerry.
...


So there is hope that another Palm OS based Treo will be released, but there is not as great a market as there will be for Windows devices over time.

Regardless of the outcome with the Palm OS the company Palm made the right move. At the end of the day their company employs people that have families at home. Those families could care less which OS Palm uses so long as daddy/mommy still has a job ;) .

[xchpstang]

I don't think so either. I want a phone with an OS I can choose to add new applications to. I also don't want Windows.

If Palm have killed the PalmOS, then if I eventually did have to buy a WindowsMobile device, I'd buy it from anybody EXCEPT Palm. No way am I rewarding them for reducing the available OS choices.AMEN!!!

[samkim]

He also specifically said if they can't make it work with just Windows mobile, then they deserve what they get. Palm OS is not being pursued.
In case anyone missed it, this is not what they said. They never said that they have stopped work on PalmOS devices. They are not killing the PalmOS. They went out of their way to emphasize the opposite.

It's okay to believe that Palm Inc will never put out another PalmOS device. But that would be a guess not based on anything they actually said.

[Fittske]

Palm OS is the "Apple" of treos

[dstrauss]

Reality check time -

Cooligan says coming to other carriers (including GSM) after mid-year 2006. That means they have a 700w in the pipeline for Sprint and Cingular, and perhaps an unlocked GSM worldphone.

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME PALM RELEASED TWO PHONES IN THE SAME YEAR FOR THE SAME CARRIER?

So when will we see a 700p? 2007 - just in time for a PalmLinux OS - NO, because Cooligan said so. Does that mean Palm's going it alone as the ONLY Cobalt OS user. Unlikely. :thumbsdn:

[Scarecrow]

This announcement does not mean the end of Palm OS; Bush did go on record to say that "Yes, we will havefuture Treo products on Palm OS".

According to todays announcement, the palm OS is not dead.

[ButtUglyJeff]

In April I had "cutting edge".....................

Now I have "meh"........................?

[imageone]

So when will we see a 700p? 2007 - just in time for a PalmLinux OS - NO, because Cooligan said so. Does that mean Palm's going it alone as the ONLY Cobalt OS user. Unlikely. :thumbsdn:

the question was lead by asking about new OS's like Symbian and he did mention Linux. I read it as no Symbian.

700p in 2007 (close) here's why. Help me sort this out. 700w (Verizon) 01/06 other carriers 2nd half of '06 (maybe 3rdQ). I don't think Verizon will carry a 700p, two phone same just different OS. So will Sprint pass on the 700w because they have the 6700 and get the exclusive on a 700p.

My guess 700p Sprint 08/06

[samkim]

Cooligan says coming to other carriers (including GSM) after mid-year 2006. That means they have a 700w in the pipeline for Sprint and Cingular, and perhaps an unlocked GSM worldphone.Colligan was asked about the exclusivity with Verizon, and he said that they'd be talking with other carriers. But he didn't promise any launch dates for any other carriers.

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME PALM RELEASED TWO PHONES IN THE SAME YEAR FOR THE SAME CARRIER?They said that they will increase the pace of product rollouts. So don't expect them to proceed as they've done in the past.

They also said that there will be more products announced before the end of this year.

So when will we see a 700p? 2007 - just in time for a PalmLinux OS - NO, because Cooligan said so. Does that mean Palm's going it alone as the ONLY Cobalt OS user. Unlikely. :thumbsdn:Regarding Linux, I think the answer he gave wasn't definitive. Someone asked Colligan whether they were going to launch a third operating system such as Symbian or Linux, and I got the impression that he was strongly denying any plans to deal with a third platform such as Symbian...

[Kenwood]

Okay...newb question here. Can our Palm address book be converted to be used on the Windows OS?

I've got over 600+ work realted contacts/addresses in my Treo650

[cruelpupet]

Okay...newb question here. Can our Palm address book be converted to be used on the Windows OS?

I've got over 600+ work realted contacts/addresses in my Treo650


Wrong thread...but yes. Any file that can be read can be converted to another format.

[Insertion]

Okay...newb question here. Can our Palm address book be converted to be used on the Windows OS?

I've got over 600+ work realted contacts/addresses in my Treo650

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=812368&postcount=110

[Kenwood]

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showpost.php?p=812368&postcount=110


Thank You

[asiayeah]

This announcement does not mean the end of Palm OS; Bush did go on record to say that "Yes, we will havefuture Treo products on Palm OS".

According to todays announcement, the palm OS is not dead.

Of course, they have to say this, because they are still having some Treo 600/650 in their inventories and they also don't want to upset all existing Treo users for now.

But I do wonder how sincere they are when saying this. I don't think we can know for sure until we see the actual product announcement. I bet many Palm executives and staffs are as confused as we do.

[asiayeah]

I wonder how this bodes for the zire and other pda lines? Will they move that to wm or keep it completely seperate from the treo/smartphone line?

We still have the rumored Palm TX and Zire 22. So I believe they will continue to have Palm OS for their pda lines. There's really no point for Palm to switch to use WM for the PDA lines, as PDA area is no longer a good business.

[meyerweb]

How many of Microsoft's 'partners' really push ANY other OS. Sure the big boys like Dell offer Linux if you REALLY want it, but what they push is Windoze.

As time goes on MS will make it clear to Palm that to remain a prefered partner, with prime access to MS's plans, development info, etc. they need to let the Palm OS die a natural death. Actually, I'm sure Palm already knows this.

MS deals with smaller companies are always one sided in MS's favor. Palm will release what it has in development now, and that will be the last of the P-OS, I suspect.

[asiayeah]

How many of Microsoft's 'partners' really push ANY other OS. Sure the big boys like Dell offer Linux if you REALLY want it, but what they push is Windoze.

As time goes on MS will make it clear to Palm that to remain a prefered partner, with prime access to MS's plans, development info, etc. they need to let the Palm OS die a natural death. Actually, I'm sure Palm already knows this.

MS deals with smaller companies are always one sided in MS's favor. Palm will release what it has in development now, and that will be the last of the P-OS, I suspect.

Your speculation makes a lot of sense.

Right now, it's also very clear that Palm needs help from Microsoft much more than the other way around.

It is sad to see Palm actually killing or betraying Palm OS itself.

[phurth]

How many of Microsoft's 'partners' really push ANY other OS. Sure the big boys like Dell offer Linux if you REALLY want it, but what they push is Windoze.Dell (and any other PC vendor) sells what people *want* to buy. Dell has aleady stated they'd be eager to sell PC's to run Apple's Intel ported OS X. Whether they will or won't (or will even be able to), if there's a market for it, Dell will sell it - regardless of what Microsoft wishes. If Dell won't, someone else will.

[dstrauss]

samkim:

1. Cooligan couldn't have been clearer. He was asked about other OS's and he flatly said "no Symbian" and "no Linux."

http://news.com.com/Palms+tale+of+Treo+intrigue+-+page+2/2100-1047_3-5883320-2.html?tag=st.num

2. Cooligan was also very clear that there would be a GSM version and "other carriers" after mid-year 2006."

3. Pace of roll outs is irrelevant. Give me just one reason why Verizon, Sprint or Cingular will want to carry and support the same phone on two different OS platforms? Why do you think Samsung dropped the great Palm OS4.x i500 in favor of the i730 PPC based slider?

I don't think either platform is inherently "better" than the other. I just don't see carrier acceptance of the support burden for both platforms on essentially the same hardware. Our preference for Palm OS over WM5 is irrelevant to them, unless there are substantially more buyers for one over the other. And in the corporate world, they see Micro$oft "uber alles."

Meyerweb (above) has the situation nailed. It's like the girl from Niger; you either end up riding the tiger, or insider her.

[jackaninny]

i cannot imagine that apple would like to see a growing world of smartphone devices without the ability to sync with os x desktops.

[samkim]

samkim:

1. Cooligan couldn't have been clearer. He was asked about other OS's and he flatly said "no Symbian" and "no Linux."

http://news.com.com/Palms+tale+of+Treo+intrigue+-+page+2/2100-1047_3-5883320-2.html?tag=st.numThanks for the link. News.com quotes him exactly as I remember. He was saying he didn't want to deal with a third operating system. I don't know where you get the phrase "no Linux," or even "no Symbian." When you paraphrase, please don't use quotation marks.

And the CEO of Palm is Ed Colligan.


2. Cooligan was also very clear that there would be a GSM version and "other carriers" after mid-year 2006."You use quotation marks three times... I don't know which phrase you're saying is an exact quote. I remember him being vague and non-commital, as he always is about future plans.


3. Pace of roll outs is irrelevant.You based your argument on Palm's historical pace of rollouts.


Give me just one reason why Verizon, Sprint or Cingular will want to carry and support the same phone on two different OS platforms? LOL! The same reason Palm is making phones on two platforms - because they'll sell more phones!


Why do you think Samsung dropped the great Palm OS4.x i500 in favor of the i730 PPC based slider? I'm not privy to Samsung's decision making process, but it seems reasonable to think that it was because it didn't sell well.


I don't think either platform is inherently "better" than the other. I just don't see carrier acceptance of the support burden for both platforms on essentially the same hardware. The carrier decisions on smartphones will be driven by the needs of enterprise customers. 800 companies out of the Fortune 1000 are either using or testing Palm Treos today. Carriers will support what their corporate clients need.


Meyerweb (above) has the situation nailed. It's like the girl from Niger; you either end up riding the tiger, or insider her.Both you and he seem to believe in a comic book caricature of business decision making.

[dstrauss]

Thanks for the link. News.com quotes him exactly as I remember. He was saying he didn't want to deal with a third operating system. I don't know where you get the phrase "no Linux," or even "no Symbian." When you paraphrase, please don't use quotation marks.

And the CEO of Palm is Ed Colligan.


You use quotation marks three times... I don't know which phrase you're saying is an exact quote. I remember him being vague and non-commital, as he always is about future plans.


You based your argument on Palm's historical pace of rollouts.


LOL! The same reason Palm is making phones on two platforms - because they'll sell more phones!


I'm not privy to Samsung's decision making process, but it seems reasonable to think that it was because it didn't sell well.


The carrier decisions on smartphones will be driven by the needs of enterprise customers. 800 companies out of the Fortune 1000 are either using or testing Palm Treos today. Carriers will support what their corporate clients need.


Both you and he seem to believe in a comic book caricature of business decision making.

samkim - my sincerest apologies for leading you astray with spurious quotation marks. A better reference is the full transcript of the proceedings at:

http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/speeches/2005/09-26Mobility.asp

Now - as for the comments I was referring to:

1. Cooligan on NO Symbian or Linux

"QUESTION: Obviously -- this is a question for Ed. Obviously you've opened up the Palm devices to multiple operating systems. Now, I'm just wondering if you can talk a little bit about going forward with another operating system, Symbian, Linux -- (laughter).

ED COLLIGAN: No. (Laughter.) No, not that, no, I can't talk about it; no, we don't need another operating system. I mean, really, we feel like the effort here was very much we felt like we could bring some new functionality to the marketplace through this partnership, we also thought we could reach some new customers, we thought a relationship with Microsoft, as we're looking around the world about who could we partner with to help us really take this market to another level, this was a company we thought would really make a difference for us in that. But do not take developing a whole new product on a new platform lightly. It is a major effort and it is something that we just aren't going to willy-nilly go bring up the next operating system now; it's too much effort. We're going to focus on what we've got on the table, and we're going to do a great job on those."

All that's "on the table" right now is WM5 and Garnet.

2. Cooligan on GSM and other carriers -

"QUESTION: It's a question for Ed. Do you plan to put this -- do you plan to put out a device that uses GPRS or UMTS with the Windows Mobile operating system, and if so, when do you think that might happen?

ED COLLIGAN: Absolutely, we plan on doing that. It's going to be after the middle of next year."

Sorry, my bad. I said GSM and they were talking data on GPRS and UMTS - only available on GSM networks I believe. But of course, you knew that.

3. Rollouts and pacing -

You didn't answer my question - WHY would they (and their carriers) want to support two of the same device on two different platforms?

4. meyerweb and me

A little bit harsh there (comic book caricatures) don't you think. Check out this piece from Forbes today and then come back and say that with a smile on your face:

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2005/09/27/ap2245253.html

:stick:

[samkim]

You sound more sarcastic than sincere. You didn't lead me astray. And the quotation marks weren't spurious; your comment was. ;)

Thanks for providing the transcript.

1. Colligan on Symbian and Linux.
As I said, his answer was not definitive. You and I are interpreting his remark very differently. As I listened to him, I thought his strong reaction was to the mention of Symbian. Then he struggled to give a coherent answer about one thing they won't do and another thing that he can't talk about.

And what they have on the table is Windows and Palm. (If it's just WM5 and Garnet, you'd have to also say that Palm would never move to WM6.)


2. Colligan on GSM and other carriers
You're right.

3. You didn't answer my question - WHY would they (and their carriers) want to support two of the same device on two different platforms?Who is "they"? I answered your question about the carriers. My answer was, "because they will sell more phones!" What exactly don't you understand about my answer?

4. I read the article, but I didn't notice anything relevant to Meyerweb's comments.

It's much too simplistic to view Microsoft as an evil, all-powerful beast that will crush every small company that gets near it. First, they don't have a lot of monopolies beyond desktop Windows and Office. Second, they can't get away with the kind of behavior they used to. Third, there are many instances of companies successfully partnering with Microsoft in one arena while competing in others. And fourth, there are many companies that have competed with Microsoft head-on and survived.

Saying that all deals with Microsoft are always unfair, or that Microsoft will win using underhanded tactics is painting a caricature of an evil Microsoft.

[dstrauss]

I'm not dissing Microsoft. They are not the omnipotent evil empire you think I see. In fact, given time (as they always do) they'll get to a stable OS. furthermore, without some level of standardization (in fact, that's where Apple shines in controlling the entire experience) we'd be in sixteen different flavors of Unix/CPM/DOS/Windows?OS2. My disappointment is with Palm. Let's agree to disagree, and we'll check back this time next year to see who is closer to right. Hopefully (in all sincerity) I will be the "wrong" party, and we'll have companion Palm and Windoze OS on Treos. I'm afraid, however, that we wont.

[Scarecrow]

Read this and tell me...is it good or bad

http://www.palmsource.com/opensource/letter.html

[Scarecrow]

More from palmsource

http://www.palmsource.com/palmos/cobalt.html

[dutchtrumpet]

this just in...japanese surrender! ;)

[B-model]

this just in...japanese surrender! ;)

they did! I had no idea - that's great! :rolleyes:

[samkim]

I'm not dissing Microsoft. They are not the omnipotent evil empire you think I see. In fact, given time (as they always do) they'll get to a stable OS. furthermore, without some level of standardization (in fact, that's where Apple shines in controlling the entire experience) we'd be in sixteen different flavors of Unix/CPM/DOS/Windows?OS2. My disappointment is with Palm. Let's agree to disagree, and we'll check back this time next year to see who is closer to right. Hopefully (in all sincerity) I will be the "wrong" party, and we'll have companion Palm and Windoze OS on Treos. I'm afraid, however, that we wont.
okay, I've marked my calendar for 9/28/06 to tell you, "I told you so." ;)

[dstrauss]

okay, I've marked my calendar for 9/28/06 to tell you, "I told you so." ;)

Hope you're right, and we party :cheers:

but I'm afraid I'll be the gloating party with nothing to celebrate :cry:

I am going to stop the crybaby routine, however, in that it (WM version) will still be a decent smartphone, and since there are other manufacturers, maybe they'll innovate on the hardware side a little. Just like at one time I couldn't function without my Palm (my daughter says it's my pocket memory),I can't do without my converged device anymore (as I learned while struggling with a Moto v551 and Dell x50v while waiting for my Cingular 650).

PS - I marked my OUTLOOK calendar for 9/28/06 as well, so my then newly released Treo 750W (the one with built in WiFI and 128mb ram) can remind me. :p

[gargoylejps]

Granted, we're all just making our best guesses here and some are insanely loyal to one OS, or the other (more aptly some really, really like MS and some really, really hate MS). That said, the 650 is selling like crazy. Palm is making money hand over fist with the curren Palm OS Treo. Since the WM and Palm OS units would use virtually identical hardware, the business case for Palm to support only one OS becomes pretty weak. The actual cost for Palm to support multiple OS's would just be the marginal cost to produce 1 more hardware unit and any development team to tweak the OS offerings and put the entire package together. All in all, that's a pretty minimal cost basis for the size of the revenue stream the Palm OS line will bring in to Palm.

That said, we will have to wait and see what Access/Palm Source does with the Palm OS. Best guess, they continue with the plan to move the Palm OS to a Linux flavor (noting that I did not see Colligan's comments as indicating Palm planned to dump Palm OS if/when if did move to a Linux kernal, just that, at this time, they did not plan on supporting 3 OS's). There will probably be some transitional releases with thicker middleware to ensure backward compatibility with legacy applications, but ultimately a pretty clean transition to a linux core with a Palm OS shell on top. If Access/Palm Source puts out a product that meets the demands for mobile users, particularly in terms of handling voice and multi-media, I would be very, very surprised to see Palm dump them. Why would Palm hand over hundreds of thousands, likely even millions, of sales to someone else?

JMHO

Gargoyle

[dstrauss]

...Best guess, they continue with the plan to move the Palm OS to a Linux flavor (noting that I did not see Colligan's comments as indicating Palm planned to dump Palm OS if/when if did move to a Linux kernal, just that, at this time, they did not plan on supporting 3 OS's). There will probably be some transitional releases with thicker middleware to ensure backward compatibility with legacy applications, but ultimately a pretty clean transition to a linux core with a Palm OS shell on top. If Access/Palm Source puts out a product that meets the demands for mobile users, particularly in terms of handling voice and multi-media, I would be very, very surprised to see Palm dump them. Why would Palm hand over hundreds of thousands, likely even millions, of sales to someone else?

JMHO

Gargoyle

I see the Access deal as cornering the Asian (read Chinese) flavor market. As for domestic (or even "worldphone" sales) why can't they capture the same market with the WM phone? Why does there have to be a Palm phone (other than to appease the Windoze haters among us). You heard Cooligan, WM5 can do things Palm just cannot. So unless ONLY a Palm unit could capture those marginal sales (which I doubt) Palm can safely transition ALL new customers to WM5 or later, and skip the very costly software work on two platforms. It's not jsut a matter of "tweaking" the latest OS release to work with the smartphone. Look how far behind (OS wise) Treo, and even Samsung, phones have been from the PDA universe. Add in the carrier lead time, and even if PalmLinux were available tomorrow, it wouldn't see the light of cellular day until 2007.

[Wink40]

Forbes is reporting:

"Now, by partnering with Microsoft, Palm may have received a new lease on life. The Palm operating system, meanwhile, is likely doomed."

Even if it is not doomed, would any responsible corporate IT group buy non-windows Treos? I suspect that this really means that Blackberry will take over.

[Rome]

He also specifically said if they can't make it work with just Windows mobile, then they deserve what they get. Palm OS is not being pursued.

That's not what Colligan said. He said that if Palm couldn't innovate on top of Windows Mobile, then they deserved to be commoditized. It has nothing to do with the choice of OS.

In a later presentation, Ken Wirt re-affirmed Palm's multi-OS strategy.

[samkim]

I see the Access deal as cornering the Asian (read Chinese) flavor market. As for domestic (or even "worldphone" sales) why can't they capture the same market with the WM phone? Why does there have to be a Palm phone (other than to appease the Windoze haters among us). You heard Cooligan, WM5 can do things Palm just cannot. So unless ONLY a Palm unit could capture those marginal sales (which I doubt) Palm can safely transition ALL new customers to WM5 or later, and skip the very costly software work on two platforms. It's not jsut a matter of "tweaking" the latest OS release to work with the smartphone. Look how far behind (OS wise) Treo, and even Samsung, phones have been from the PDA universe. Add in the carrier lead time, and even if PalmLinux were available tomorrow, it wouldn't see the light of cellular day until 2007.
If PalmOS users have a PalmOS upgrade path, Palm can keep most of them since they're just about the only game in town. If the users are forced to move to Windows, then Palm has to split them with the other WM smartphone makers. It's in Palm's interest to keep PalmOS alive.

Btw, I agreed with you 100% on the Brighthand board about the (lack of a)need for a Windows Mobile PDA, but apparently Ed deleted my post. First time that's ever happened to me. I cited the shrinking PDA market, and Palm's declining PDA sales.

[michaand]

I think of it this way...

I hope the sales of the 700w is enought to take Palm to another level and maybe in the next 2 years we will see a Treo XXX Palm OS that will blow away the 700w. They better suck up all the Fortune500 companies on the Windows transition then Palm can step up there game on the Palm OS. I don't give a damn it it takes 3 years for a Palm OS i'm not going to Windows OS on my Treo

[gargoylejps]

I see the Access deal as cornering the Asian (read Chinese) flavor market. As for domestic (or even "worldphone" sales) why can't they capture the same market with the WM phone? Why does there have to be a Palm phone (other than to appease the Windoze haters among us). You heard Cooligan, WM5 can do things Palm just cannot. So unless ONLY a Palm unit could capture those marginal sales (which I doubt) Palm can safely transition ALL new customers to WM5 or later, and skip the very costly software work on two platforms. It's not jsut a matter of "tweaking" the latest OS release to work with the smartphone. Look how far behind (OS wise) Treo, and even Samsung, phones have been from the PDA universe. Add in the carrier lead time, and even if PalmLinux were available tomorrow, it wouldn't see the light of cellular day until 2007.

Linux is undoubtedly more popular in Asia than here; although, it is a growing movement in the US and causing much frustration at MS. That said, the reason for more than one OS platform is that people want choice. Obviously, given the many posts here, many, many people want an alternative to Windows on their handheld/smartphone. Maybe they don't like the WM UI, maybe they don't like the bloat common in MS products, maybe they just don't like MS. Whatever the reason, there is a significant market for something other than a WM device and it would be silly, and an incredibly bad business decision, for Palm to just hand that market over to someone else, especially since Palm's marginal cost to retain them is, all things considered, pretty minimal. They will be making the basic hardware for whatever device they make and the core of the OS is being written and enhanced by someeone else. Device specific modifications will be more than "tweaking", yes. Still, it's not like they aer building a new OS from scratch, or even truly developing the OS further. Moreover, it is not in Palm's best interest to become solely dependent on one OS at this point. By keeping two OS's in house they keep MS and whomever, Access/PalmSource at this point, on their toes improving their respective platforms. If they become dependent on MS, then they really don't have any leverage to push MS to improve the platform.

JMHO

Gargoyle