So Palm is dead? Right? Dead. Right? Dead.

[mgauss]

Well so m uch for 10 years of opportunity to "lock in users" with great software.

No, Palm software managed to create a buggy environment that will see its users port themselves to another buggy (but Gates Richer) environment.

Dead, dead, dead. Dedo. RIP Psalm I mean Palm.

[dstrauss]

You're a little bit late mgauss - we've already eulogized the death of the Palm OS in numerous threads here and in the Treo Windows Mobile and Future Treos forums

[dlbrummels]

But there will be a Palm emulator...

[snoslicer8]

I know we have eulogized the palm. os in many threads, but I feel I have to bring this up: in the palm analyst day interview transcripts on the front page, a Palm executive went on the record to say there WILL be a new Palm OS Treo...interesting for something whose grave has been dug already...

[siriusbliss]

I believe the Palm OS will get amalgamated and consumed into some sort of quasi-universal and transparent mobile system, as various aspects of it are already mimicked inside Windoze mobile 5.0. No idea what the Japanese are up to, but I know that they don't care for Windoze.

[skfny]

Unless PalmLinux emerges in the next 6 months, and LG or Palm produce a can't miss product based on it, yes, PalmOS is dead IMO.

[snoslicer8]

It is my firm belief that if Palm OS can get multi tasking capabilities under its belt, it will breathe new life into the platform. Personally, I find POS to be much more stable and intuitive than WM. The only feature they have that I want is multi tasking applications. When they get there I will be a happy man.

[vinman]

But now they don't HAVE to develop a multitasking Palm OS. Nor do they have to develop a set of WiFi drivers. Nor do they have to further upgrade BlueTooth. ETCETERA. This, indeed, makes the Palm platform look developmentally unattractive. Palm does do a few things well, but arguably not as many as Windows. It may be a slow death, but I think somebody at Palm is counting down to the demise of the platform. I have enjoyed using Palm for the past three years, but if it happens, I'll adapt because I still like their hardware.
Vince

[mulcher]

Not sure that is a bad thing. If they can pull off their smooth integration into windows mobile, it sounds like a best of both worlds scenario. My heart does go out to all the Palm developers that have put their life blood into software. Why would any real developer focus on the Palm OS now? There really is no other very successful Palm OS device selling in the market and the great majority of people buy the Treo for it's form factor, not specifically because of the software. I bet 90% just use what's included (and that has alot to be desired compared to windows mobile)

I love my Treo 650, and I love chattermail, but the friggen number of random resets/day is amazing (much worse since last "patch") Beyond the form factor, and slick dialing, every other app I like can be gotton on Windows Mobile and then I can run the tons of specialized business apps my client need such as CRM systems, databases, bar code readers etc.

If the 700w is at least as stable as the current state of the 650 (hopefully alot more stable) than I think they will move from specialty device to mainstream. I do lament the lower screen resolution and one would guess in the next 6 months they will have that licked.

Right now there is no good reason based on the announcement to toss your 650 and get a 700w (even if you are on ripoff Verizon) because it is not much of a physical improvement. I think the big migration will come in 6 to 18 months though depending on future devices. If they had a Treo 750 with built in wifi, evdo, 320x320 or better display, 2megapixel camera, at least 128megs built in ram, 500mhz or faster processor, smoother video, stronger IR transmitter, USB 2 transfer speeds, much improved voice and ringer clarity/volume, and a choice of either Palm or Windows, I think you will start to see a fundamental shift to windows...

[snoslicer8]

I don't quite understand your reasoning behind the idea that they all of a sudden don't have to develop on top of what they've done. Do you have that much faith in WM? To be able to switch to it and get everything you want without saying "I wish it had.....Palm OS did..."?

[mulcher]

Without having seen the announcement or touching the device, I have to think they got at least 85% of the Palm nicities into the WM product such as the ability to dial and navigate everything with one hand and to rarely ever need the stylus.

ASSUMING...this is true and assuming the next release (nobody get's it right the first time) gets that to 95% or better, than Palm OS is toast. It may be simpler, but so was Windows 3.1, Apple OS, OS/2 and many other systems that just didn't make it long term.

If you aren't gaining marketshare in the computer related industry, than you lose developers. When you lose developers, you are cooked as far as I'm concerned because it is the third party products that drive any computer (not appliance) related products based on my experience...

[mgauss]

Well seriously when I started the thread I was coy. My real feeling is that Palm OS is not dead, as it is much closer to what will be running in a pocket PC in 5 years than Windows is. Perhaps Microsoft should buy Palm OS features. Windows is just too "big."

[JAWilson]

I had a smart phone running windows two smart phones ago, and I really didn't care for it. My experience is that Palm OS is better suited for a smart phone being a phone that is also a PDA. If you want a computer in your pocket, what would it really do that a laptop or your computer at home couldn't. Does anybody really ever produce a word document from a PDA?

[Katway]

Just to be clear, Palm (makers of the Treo) and PalmSource are two different companies. Palm is hardware oriented. PalmSource, which was recently purchased by a Japanese Co., is software oriented and owns the Palm OS. It is anticipated that PalmSource will develope a new Palm OS based on Linux. The new Palm OS will likely resolve many of the deficiancies in the existing Palm OS.

Just because Palm (the makers of Treo) are making a windows mobile phone doesn't mean that they will not welcome the opportunity to create Palm OS based phones in the future. A Linux based OS is likely to have greater performance capacity than a Windows Mobile OS when installed on a phone with the same processors since the Windows Mobile OS has some usage issues with respect to processor power, memory , and battery life.

What I'm saying is Windows Mobile isn't exactly the greatest thing since slice bread and its problems are not likely to change. However, a new Palm OS based on Linux has the ability to outperform Windows Mobile. Whether or not that performance is realized is another issue.

While getting out such a phone sooner rather than later is important, the high end phone market is still in its infancy stages. PalmSource still has time to turn things around before its too late.

[sam-i-am]

I dont think the japs spent a bunch of money on palm os to kill it off.

[Tom Jefferson]

Where are all the fan-boys now eh?

[snoslicer8]

I feel I must point out a few things. In their press conference/interview, Palm stressed the fact that they see themselves as an integration company rather than a hardware company...meaning that they don't just make the Treo hardware, but they poke and prod and mold whatever OS they put onto the hardware so it works intuitively. Now, so far for me, that has been Palm OS. I had a WM device once, and I was flabberghasted at how dumb this "smart"phone was (the 6315 from HP). Granted that device's release was one of the most hasty product releases I had seen, but it sure put a bad taste in my mouth for WM. That is when I made my move back to Palm and chose the Treo. I hope that those of us who want the Palm OS are heard and heeded. I truly believe that, with some work, a new Palm OS Treo would sell as well as, if not better, than this WM Treo.

[Treo Rat]

Where are all the fan-boys now eh?


Where are the Treo 700s eh?

Not available yet till early 2006. :p

[ericshmerick]

Well so m uch for 10 years of opportunity to "lock in users" with great software.

No, Palm software managed to create a buggy environment that will see its users port themselves to another buggy (but Gates Richer) environment.

Dead, dead, dead. Dedo. RIP Psalm I mean Palm.
Palm better not be dead. I ain't using Windows Mobile. Sorry Billy, it's not for me.

[Hargoth]

Its simply sad that MS kills another OS. The alternatives to MS on any platform are dwindling, and that is NOT a good thing.

I for one, will never buy or use a MS product, simply because my money will forever favor choice and innovation.

Live free or die!

It still means something, to me.

[dstrauss]

Well seriously when I started the thread I was coy. My real feeling is that Palm OS is not dead, as it is much closer to what will be running in a pocket PC in 5 years than Windows is. Perhaps Microsoft should buy Palm OS features. Windows is just too "big."

If Mr. Robinson were advising Benjamin Braddock today about the one word The Graduate needed to know, it would be "memory."

Windoze, whatever flavor or platform, will ALWAYS be bloated and "too big." Faster processors help, but M$oft's secret weapon has always been "more memory" for overhead. Modern PPC's have broken the 128mb barrier; the Apple iPod Nano points to a 4gb flash future, so...

Once again memory will bail out WM5, and they can just keep cobbling on bloat to make up for the elegance of tighter code (Palm). In all honesty, even Palm is adding pounds in its middle age, so who's to complain. The outcome has now been decided:

1. High speed (EVDO, UMTS) networks demand multitasking

2. Frankengarnet has struggled to emulate multitasking

3. Cobalt has died on the vine

4. PalmLinux is a couple of years away, if ever

5. WM5, sloppy, bloated, and Windoze is here and now

6. HP and others have demonstrated PPC can support EVDO, WiFi and Bluetooth on the same device, often simultaneously

7. Last - WHY continue to work so hard to make these feature work in the Palm environment, when they already exist and can be further tweaked on the Windoze platform? Just to appease those of us who hate Windoze?

[Tastypeppers]

I came on this thread while searching. (Searching the keyword 'CRM' by the way, evidently searching isn't an exact science).

I just had to laugh. We are still having this conversation at the end of May, 2007.

Maybe Septimus needs to sponsor a contest--find the earliest thread that says 'Palm is doomed'. Another fun one would be to find the earliest 'Treo-killer' post.

Ah, well. I'm going to post a question now in a new thread, having done my search-first duty.

[yavapai]

I had a smart phone running windows two smart phones ago, and I really didn't care for it. My experience is that Palm OS is better suited for a smart phone being a phone that is also a PDA. If you want a computer in your pocket, what would it really do that a laptop or your computer at home couldn't. Does anybody really ever produce a word document from a PDA?
As a matter of fact I sit and class and do whole papers on my treo quite often. yeah I know I should be listening but oh well. anyway I believe that some day palm will get pos right. I mean how many times can they keep screwing up. hopefully they will begin to learn from their mistakes and build upon them untill they get it right. the last thing I want is that virus bill gates on my own personal phone. my laptop is bad enough.

[gksmithlcw]

The last thing I want is that virus bill gates on my own personal phone. my laptop is bad enough.

Heh... Bill "The Virus" Gates....